"redundant" pronoun suffixes

Discussion in 'עברית (Hebrew)' started by trigel, Mar 20, 2013.

  1. trigel Senior Member

    English - US, Korean
    I have seen this construction a few times, with motion verbs:

    הוא מרחף לו\מתעופף לו
    and also examples such as
    אל תוותרי לך סתם ככה

    (I think I've also seen a "redundant" pronoun on על but I'm not sure.)

    Can you explain the function of the extra pronoun? Is this construction borrowed from the use of reflexive pronouns in European languages? If yes than what function does it serve in Hebrew where verbs are already transitive or reflexive by themselves?
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2013
  2. origumi Senior Member

    It appears in Mishnaic Hebrew so later European influence is unlikely (well, Greek & Latin were already in the neighborhood). For example הלך לו למדינות הים.

    Reflexive verbs as in בניין התפעל do not necessarily have the same meaning. הלך לו and התהלך are different.
  3. Tararam Senior Member

    I think it's even older than Mishanic:
    וַיֹּאמֶר יְהוָה אֶל אַבְרָם לֶךְ לְךָ מֵאַרְצְךָ וּמִמּוֹלַדְתְּךָ וּמִבֵּית אָבִיךָ אֶל הָאָרֶץ אֲשֶׁר אַרְאֶךָּ.

    Isn't it basically the same thing?

  4. origumi Senior Member

    Certainly. Thanks.
  5. Tararam Senior Member

    I'm sorry, I didn't address your question regarding the function of this construction.
    It usually correlates with the English "away" / "by" or "now" or "conveniently", and sometimes indicates an action done to the pleasing of oneself and contrary to the liking of others (depending on context and tone).
    לך לך = go now.
    מרחף לו = floats away/by conveniently. (If said in an argumentative tone, can mean contrary to one's liking)
    אתה נהנה לך בעוד שאני סובל = you're having a good time while I suffer. (The use of the pronoun emphasizes the disliking to that person's enjoyment, in view of the other's suffering)
    אני מטייל לי בארץ ישראל = I travel in Israel to my enjoyment.
  6. arielipi Senior Member

    it can be put as emphasizing ones actions.
  7. trigel Senior Member

    English - US, Korean
    Are there more exceptions like דע לך where the לך doesn't quite carry the "as you want" meaning discussed here, but more, perhaps, like emphasis?
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  8. arielipi Senior Member

    yes, anything that is related to acquiring new things concatenated with לך *can* deliver an emphasizing message.

    EDIT added ** part
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013

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