Reflexive verbs hallarse, quedarse, verse

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by garryknight, Oct 18, 2004.

  1. garryknight Senior Member

    Kent, UK
    UK, English
    A grammar book I was reading has the following examples of use of the reflexive verb:

    Se halló engañado. She was deceived.
    Se quedaron atónitos. They were astonished.
    El ladrón se vio encarcelado. The thief was imprisoned.

    Are the verbs hallarse, quedarse, and verse interchangeable? In other words, can I use any one of them in any of the sentences? As an example, does "se quedó engañado" mean the same as "Se halló engañado"? If not, why not? How might I know which verb to use when?
     
  2. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng

    No, you cannot interchange these 3 verbs. You cannot definitely say "se quedó engañado" without changing the meaning of the sentence.
    In the first sentence "halló" is connected with thinking, in this particular case, because "hallar" also means to find. It's as if he realized he had been deceived. If we say "se quedó engañado" we are saying that he remained in certain place having been deceived (Se quedó, engañado, en el hospital) or that he he remained in that condition of having been deceived. For example if I don't want him to know about his mother's illness, I can tell him a white lie and if he does not realise I lied to him he, in that case "se quedó engañado" He didn't realise I had told him a lie. If "Se halló engañado" he realized he had been deceived.
    I think the reflexive form "verse" is more connected with verbs of perception whereas "hallarse" more related to thoughts.
    "El ladrón se vio acorralado/encarcelado/rodeado" at that very moment he is perceiving the action.

    I hope this be helpful. Bye A.
     
  3. garryknight Senior Member

    Kent, UK
    UK, English
    This is a very useful explanation. It's more or less what I'd been thinking but I'd been wondering why the book didn't give more complete explanations. Thanks, it's very helpful.

    By the way, "I hope this be helpful" would be a good translation of the subjunctive that's used in Spanish, but we English have forgotten how to use the subjunctive, so we usually say "I hope this is helpful". Espero que esta te ayude.
     
  4. jacinta Senior Member

    California
    USA English
    Here's another question along these lines...

    Do these sentences have the same meanings?

    Se vió encarcelado.
    Se encontró encarcelado.

    Do they both mean he found himself?
     
  5. Artrella Banned

    BA
    ARGENTINA Sp/Eng
    By the way, "I hope this be helpful" would be a good translation of the subjunctive that's used in Spanish, but we English have forgotten how to use the subjunctive, so we usually say "I hope this is helpful". Espero que esta te ayude.[/QUOTE]


    Thanks for tell me about the subjunctive, I thought it was formal or still in use. Art. ;)
     
  6. marietta Senior Member

    Caracas
    Venezuela- Spanish
    > Se vió encarcelado.
    Se encontró encarcelado.

    Do they both mean he found himself? <

    Yes, they both mean the same.
     
  7. David Senior Member

    We never never use the subjunctive in English. Of course we say it is important that you be there. He insists she go with him. Be that as it may. I am not you, but if I were ... Be he live or be he dead, I'll grind his bones to make my bread. We have NOT forgotten the subjunctive. It's just used differently from the Spanish subjunctive. If he were rich, he wouldn't have to work. If he was rich, it didn't show. Both are correct; different meanings. If I have gone, leave a note. If I had gone, I would have seen him... both correct, different meaning. If I had gone is imperfect subjunctive. Some people might say "If he was rich, he wouldn't have to work," but it isn't very good English. They also say "the man that got the job" when English requires "the man who got the job". It is unfair, but educated people know the difference and judge others by their grammar, often unfairly.
     
  8. JoseBano Senior Member

    Near Salares, NE of Málaga
    English England
    I thought that Se vió encardelado could be used for the nuance that a person could regard himself or herself as being imprisoned, for instance within an unhappy job, marriage etc; whilst Se encontró encarcelado could be used for the nuance that the person actually did discover that he or she actually was in a prison - for instance, awoke in prison after having been brought in drunk and having not previously realised where he or she was.

    Or am I mistaken?

    JB
     
  9. NewdestinyX

    NewdestinyX Senior Member

    PA, USA|Do work in Spain
    American English
    David, you probably should put a queston mark after your first sentence there.. :) I was ready to argue with you -- because the subjunctive is alive and well in English as you eventually point out..

    Grant
     
  10. NewdestinyX

    NewdestinyX Senior Member

    PA, USA|Do work in Spain
    American English
    And thanks Dave for this example. I've been trying to think of a 'simple past - Type 0 Conditional (timeless statement)' for a course I'm writing. It seemed there should be one -- but I sure couldn't think of one. Can you think of a Type 1 condition (cause and effect) in the past?

    Thanks,
    Grant
     

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