Reunidos... Intervienen

Discussion in 'Legal Terminology' started by andurinha, Jul 31, 2009.

  1. andurinha Senior Member

    Spanish Spanish
    Buenos días:
    Estoy ante un contrato de prestación de servicios. Como en la mayoría, lo primero es identificar a las partes. Esta es la primera vez que me topo con una doble identificación.

    El primer encabezamiento ("Reunidos") identifica (ciudad, DNI) a los firmantes; el segundo ("Intervienen") explica su vinculación a las empresas que representan y su potestad para firmar.

    No sé cómo marcar esa diferencia de apartados o secciones del contrato. He llegado incluso a plantearme dividir el sintagma "by and between" ("by" para la presentación de los firmantes y "between" para su vinculación con las empresas).

    Agradecería la ayuda de todos
     
  2. litiga8or

    litiga8or Senior Member

    Oregon, USA
    Rainy Oregon! USA
    If you could post your attempted translation of the entire sentence, I will be happy to contribute my comments.
     
  3. andurinha Senior Member

    Spanish Spanish
    Sorry, I usually do it, but in this case is more a conceptual legal doubt. But I apoligize anyways

    There are two individuals signing the contract but 3 legal entities. So, in the first part they only introduce themselves as individuals and in the second one they introduce themselves like entities (or the entities they represent). In Spanish we mark that by Reunidos... Intervienen.

    So I was wondering... The collocation enter by and between.. What is by and what is between? can it be by (individuals) and between the entities on which behalf they are acting?

    Please, someone help me out. Thank you

    Text:

    This Agreementis entered into in __________ as of this __ day of ____ 2009


    BY AND BETWEEN(REUNIDOS):


    On the one hand,

    Mr. Pepe García, of full legal age, and Spanish resident with address for purposes of this document, in His House, Postal Code, City, ; and with foreign resident identification number (N.I.E.) 00000000Z.

    And on the other hand,

    Mr. Juan Martínez, of full legal age, and Spanish nationality and residence, with address, for purposes of this document, in Barcelona His House, Postal Code, City; holding Fiscal Identity Number (N.I.F.) 00000000Ñ.


    AND BETWEEN (Intervienen):


    Mr. Pepe García, on behalf of the Spanish company known as El Bar del Vecino.

    This party will hereinafter be referred to as “the Company”;

    Mr. Juan Martínez, on behalf of the Spanish company known as El Proveedor del Bar del Vecino.

    This party will hereinafter be referred to as “PT”;

    Besides, Mr. Juan Martínez (INTERVIENE, which is not appear, I think) on his own behalf.

    This party will hereinafter be referred to as “Mr. Juan Martínez”.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2009
  4. piraña utria

    piraña utria Senior Member

    Cartagena de Indias.
    Spanish - Colombian with Caribbean nuanc
    Hola:

    El problema como bien dices es de teoría jurídica, dado que la figura de la representación implica precisamente que las sociedades también están "presentes" y celebrando el contrato.

    Pero como no puedes "corregir el documento", ¿qué te parece "SIGNATORIES" para la primera parte? Yo dejaría "BY AND BETWEEN" para la segunda sección.

    Saludos,
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2009
  5. andurinha Senior Member

    Spanish Spanish
    Antes de nada, muchas gracias por responder, empezaba a creer que estaba sola en el planeta ;-)

    Es una muy buena opción aunque aparecen tres firmantes (Empresa1, Empresa 2 "Debidamente representada por Juan Martínez" y Juan Martínez); es decir 3 firmas, dos de ellas idénticas.

    Si me aseguras que declarar dos firmantes ("signatories") cuando hay tres firmas (reitero: dos de ellas de una misma persona) no constituirá una incoherencia o incohesión, tu opción me gusta mucho.

    Aún así el saber de dónde vienen esas dos preposiciones "by" y "between" ha despertado enormemente mi atención. No estarás al corriente, ¿verdad?
     
  6. piraña utria

    piraña utria Senior Member

    Cartagena de Indias.
    Spanish - Colombian with Caribbean nuanc

    Hola:

    Como ya dije en otra parte, creo que el "verano" tiene espantado a todo el mundo, pero acá en Colombia, sin estaciones, todo es muy normal. :)

    Signatories, salvo que un nativo nos dé una razón de uso bastante contundente, no es para nada contradictorio: en dictionary.com aparece la acepción de "quien firma un documento". Con esta acepción, la "física" por llamarla así, es claro que solamente son dos los firmantes, así se repitiera la firma de Juan Martínez.

    La verdad no tengo la menor idea del porqué del "by and between"; solamente lo he leído en contratos en inglés de algunos clientes (minutas impuestas por empresas gringas); nada más.

    Saludos cordiales,
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2009
  7. andurinha Senior Member

    Spanish Spanish
    La verdad es que sí; hay pocas intervenciones estos días y te aseguro que yo tengo el mismo trabajo que normalmente.

    Entonces todo está decidido, salvo si algún nativo nos corrige a tiempo. Muchísimas gracias, de nuevo, piraña utria.

    Un abrazo desde España.
     
  8. litiga8or

    litiga8or Senior Member

    Oregon, USA
    Rainy Oregon! USA
    Yes, it is summer. And the summer heat plus lack of air conditioning is keeping me away from home, as I seek comfort in air-conditioned libriaries and senior centers ... then try to sleep a little at night. I'll be glad when our usual rainy weather returns.

    As for your topic, I see the problem, but I don't see a good solution. If there are three entities signing the contract, there should be three parties. If there are only two parties, then only two signatures should be required. The contract should not be written "by and between A & B" and "between C" ... the phrase "by and between" is not used that way. "by" means each named party is signing the contract; "between" means each named party is contracting with every other named party.

    In addition, I see problems with the phrases "On the one hand ... on the other hand" and "besides." These are informal phrases and are not used in contract language.
     
  9. litiga8or

    litiga8or Senior Member

    Oregon, USA
    Rainy Oregon! USA
    My best suggestions would be to make the following changes:

    ========================================================
    This Agreement is entered into at [location] __________, this __ day of ____ 2009,

    BY AND BETWEEN:

    Mr. Pepe García, of full legal age, and Spanish resident with address for purposes of this document, in His House, Postal Code, City, ; and with foreign resident identification number (N.I.E.) 00000000Z, on his own behalf as an individual and on behalf of the Spanish company known as El Bar del Vecino (hereinafter referred to as “the Company”);
    AND

    Mr. Juan Martínez, of full legal age, and Spanish nationality and residence, with address, for purposes of this document, in Barcelona His House, Postal Code, City; holding Fiscal Identity Number (N.I.F.) 00000000Ñ, on his own behalf as an individual and on behalf of the Spanish company known as El Proveedor del Bar del Vecino (hereinafter referred to as “PT”):

    This contract would require Four Signatures, one for each party.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  10. litiga8or

    litiga8or Senior Member

    Oregon, USA
    Rainy Oregon! USA
    As for the phrase, "on the one hand .... on the other hand ..." , you might consider using the following old-fashioned kind of legal English:

    Party(ies) of the First Part ... Party(ies) of the Second Part ...
     
  11. EliTrans Senior Member

    Madrid
    English - USA
    Hola a todos! Mi problema es que estoy traduciendo un contrato que tiene tres expresiones que no se como traducir:

    REUNIDOS:

    INTERVIENEN:

    EXPONEN:

    A mi entender, normalmente tienes dos de estos tres terminos, lo cual traduciria de la siguiente manera:

    BY AND BETWEEN:

    DECLARE:

    Pero si tengo que decir las tres cosas??? Alguien me puede echar una mano?

    Gracias y saludos,
    Eli
     

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