rhetorical value

Discussion in 'English Only' started by NickJunior, Jul 31, 2007.

  1. NickJunior Senior Member

    Amérique du Nord
    Cambodgien
    I look up the word "rhetoric" and learn that it is a noun, meaning "art of speaking of writing effectively". So does the expression "rhetorical value" mean the systematic thinking process?
     
  2. bibliolept

    bibliolept Senior Member

    Northern California
    AE, Español
    I would caution you that this sentence includes several mistakes or questionable constructions; minimally, it must sound awkward to any native speaker of AE.

    "Rhetorical value" is not a common phrase by far. From my experience with it, rhetorical value roughly means the level of attention paid or importance/weight given by the writer or reader.
     
  3. nichec

    nichec Senior Member

    Chinese(Taiwan)/English(AE)
    To make things worse, I am having some very serious doubts about this sentence. It's strange not only in the way it is written, in fact, that's probably the smallest problem I can see.

    This term that you are asking about is not common at all as far as I am concerned.
     
  4. Cagey post mod

    California
    English - US
    I agree that there is much wrong with the sentence. However, it is moderately more intelligible if we make value plural. Below I have crossed out words, to show what I take to be the basic structure of the sentence.

    Non-native English speakers' thought process appears to the Americans as disorganized, illogical, or wordy expression because they don't have the standard American typical rhetorical valueS.

    We still have to figure out what American rhetorical values might be, among other problems.

    I do hope that this sentence was not offered as an example to follow.
     
  5. bibliolept

    bibliolept Senior Member

    Northern California
    AE, Español
    "To Americans, the thought processes of non-Native English speakers might appear illogical or disjointed because their seemingly disorganized expressions don't demonstrate typical rhetorical values."
     
  6. NickJunior Senior Member

    Amérique du Nord
    Cambodgien
    Sorry everyone for the awkward-sounding, poorly constructed sentence below. It was combined into a whole by using one author's phrases as follows:



    "Non-native English speakers' thought process appears to the Americans as disorganized, illogical, or wordy expression because they don't have the standard American typical rhetorical value."

    Thank you all for your lively discussion and participation. I just want to let you know where the sentence is made up from.
     
  7. JeffJo Senior Member

    USA
    USA, English
    Well, you've got a peculiar sentence there, Nick.

    Let's try:

    - 'The thought processes, of non-native English speakers, appear to Americans as disorganized, illogical, or wordy, because they don't have the typical American speech quality.'
     
  8. NickJunior Senior Member

    Amérique du Nord
    Cambodgien
    Hi Jeff, I like and agree with your version. After I read it, it sounds very refined. Thank you. What do you think of Biblolept's version of ""To Americans, the thought processes of non-Native English speakers might appear illogical or disjointed because their seemingly disorganized expressions don't demonstrate typical rhetorical values."?
     
  9. JeffJo Senior Member

    USA
    USA, English
    Hi, Nick. In post #6, where you quoted, “Americans typically value…” what's the rest of that sentence? It looks as though that sentence should define "value," as the writer was using the term. At first appearance, I take it as alluding to the quality of American speech.

    In the phrase "academic rhetoric," the word "rhetoric" refers to jargon (the jargon of the academy, that is.)
     
  10. NickJunior Senior Member

    Amérique du Nord
    Cambodgien
    Jeff, the label "Americans typical value" is just a heading. Here is the original full quote:

     
  11. JeffJo Senior Member

    USA
    USA, English
    I see, the term "value" is used in reference to how academic writing is likely to be evaluated. One would speak of academic "standards," then.
     

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