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rimettere in sesto

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by Alxmrphi, May 13, 2009.

  1. Alxmrphi Senior Member

    Reykjavík, Ísland
    UK English
    Just after some general discussion on when to use this, the WR dictionary definition seems a bit vague (to put back on its feet)

    So I searched a bit around Google to see if I could find some sentences with it and found some like...


    • Ho rimesso in sesto il mio twitter
    • ma il mondo non può essere rimesso in sesto
    • poi mi sono rilassata e solo gli dei sanno quanto mi avete fatto ridere e avere rimesso in sesto giorni altrimenti storti e vuoti
    • Un atleta afflitto da problemi fisici è stato rimesso in sesto da un osteopata e un Podologo
    So I can see that it might be translated as a few things in English, but:

    1. What would it's core meaning be?
    2. When else might you use it?
    3. Where did it come from (to put back in sixth?)
    4. Is it common?
    Thanks for any help.
    Ciao.
     
  2. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    The "sesto" is the "layout", the "orderly setup" of pretty much anything.

    For instance, il "sesto d'impianto" of a vineyard, or of an olive grove, is the way you organize the vines or the trees in rows at a specific distance from one another etc.

    Etimologically, the root is not the number six, but ( I just looked it up here http://www.etimo.it/?term=sesto&find=Cerca - I am not that good :) ) the Latin verb "sistere" , to put in place ( cfr. Engl "set" and Ger. "setzen" ).

    Metaphorically, as you have noticed, you can "mettere in sesto" , ( "set right", perhaps ? ) , pretty much anything, from a love relationship to the frame of a car after a crash, to a company's balance sheet. It is a very common idiom.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  3. winegrower Senior Member

    “Sesto” oltre ad essere un aggettivo numerale ordinale, è un sostantivo che ha due significati: indica la curvatura di un arco oppure un assetto normale, una giusta disposizione. ‘Rimettersi in sesto’ vuol dire allora riacquistare un buono stato di salute o una soddisfacente situazione economica. Rimettere in ordine, a posto (nella forma riflessiva, più spesso: rimettersi in salute). 'Sesta' o 'seste' era detto una volta il compasso perché "nel fare un cerchio, apre tanto quanto il lato del sessangolo (esagono) inscritto nel cerchio". 'Sesto' passò quindi a significare anche 'misura, modo' e 'ordine'.
    Tratto da questo sito.
     
  4. Alxmrphi Senior Member

    Reykjavík, Ísland
    UK English
    Grazie Ody:) Diciamo anche "put right"
     
  5. Drystane Dyke

    Drystane Dyke Senior Member

    Edinburgh
    English - UK
    What would be the correct phrase in English: a commanding officer says to his sergeant "Rimettili in sesto!" referring to the soldiers. I know what it means ("get the troop back together and ready to depart") but I know nothing about military terminology and I want to get it right.

    Thanks all.
     
  6. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    The Italian expression is not a technical military term at all - perhaps you don't need to use one in the translation either.

    But mostly, since "mettere in sesto" is a very generic expression, from the sentence you posted and the very little context available, I really don't understand what exactly it means.

    If I had to go by first impression, the officer is asking the sergeant to "work them into shape" - training them individually and tuning the unit.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2010
  7. Drystane Dyke

    Drystane Dyke Senior Member

    Edinburgh
    English - UK
    The soldiers have been having their meal and the officer is displeased that they are still lounging around when there is urgent work to do. So he tells the sergeant to get them back into...into what? Order? Their troop? I am sure there is a phrase in English but it escapes me. A military person would know it immediately.

    Indeed the Italian is not a technical term, but it does mean something precise in this context and, as I say, I don't want to commit a solecism in English by using a "civvie" phrase when there would be a correct military one.
     
  8. Rival Senior Member

    English - UK
    A military term would be "Sergeant, Form the men up." or "Fall the men in." and the sergeant would order the soldiers to "Fall in." which means they must stand in their orderly ranks.

    I'm sure there are others.
    .
     
  9. Teerex51

    Teerex51 Senior Member

    Milan, Italy
    Italian
    Almost the same as Rival's: Get the men to fall in.
     
  10. Drystane Dyke

    Drystane Dyke Senior Member

    Edinburgh
    English - UK
    Ah, that's it. I knew there was a phrase.

    Thank you both so much.
     
  11. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche
    What I am trying to say is that the Italian term does not convey the meaning of setting soldiers in a formation. I don't think that's what's happening - he is just saying to the sergeant, informally, to 'get them focused again', or something similar. If there is a military term for that, fine - but he is not one of those that Rival suggested, which are correct per se, but do not translate 'mettere in sesto', not in this, nor in other contexts.

    "La FIAT andava male - Marchionne l'ha messa in sesto"

    "I figli dei vicini sono dei mezzi delinquenti - i genitori dovrebbero metterli in sesto"

    "Giovanni andava malissimo a scuola, adesso s'e' messo un po' in sesto, ma ancora di strada deve farne"

    ecc ecc
     
  12. Drystane Dyke

    Drystane Dyke Senior Member

    Edinburgh
    English - UK
    Oh - I see. So the officer is rather expressing irritation and telling the sergeant to make them get a move on, than giving a specific order?

    Thanks again.
     
  13. Odysseus54

    Odysseus54 Mod huc mod illuc

    In the hills of Marche
    Italian - Marche

    Yes - and you are quite welcome.
     
  14. Teerex51

    Teerex51 Senior Member

    Milan, Italy
    Italian
    This is quite confusing. Rimettere in sesto in the context described above

    is actually wrong. The correct Italian expression should be rimettere in riga.

    The examples Odysseus posted above clearly illustrate the meaning of "rimettere in sesto", which is more long-term than a simple "get your act together/shape up/look sharp etc."
     
  15. Drystane Dyke

    Drystane Dyke Senior Member

    Edinburgh
    English - UK
    I doubt that it is "wrong", Teerex51, since it was written by a professional author, a native Italian speaker from Tuscany!

    Odysseus54 seems to have cleared the question up satisfactorily.
     
  16. Teerex51

    Teerex51 Senior Member

    Milan, Italy
    Italian
    Still, rimettere in sesto in the context you described is not the best choice of words.

    Professional authors and journalists occasionally get it wrong like everybody else.:D As a translator I often see that.

    I happen to agree with Odysseus on the use of rimettere in sesto, which applies to situations of a different nature.

    But if you're happy, the case is closed. ;)
     

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