Discussion in 'Etymology, History of languages, and Linguistics (EHL)' started by mojobadshah, Mar 23, 2014.
Is Riyadh the capital of Saudi Arabia really derived from the IE root Reg I?.
Why would you think Riyadh has any connection to IE?
That's what Joseph Shipley has listed in the index of his etymology dictionary. The Origins of English...
Riyadh is said to be from روضه rawḍah (garden) that (according to Jeffery, 1938) is borrowed directly from M.Pers. rōd (= river(bed), akin Av. raodh, cf. N.Pers rūd). Of course, this etymology may be outdated.
Interesting. Who is more likely to be right. Shipley or Jeffrey?
Shipley seems to consider the naming of Riyadh via the influence of Spanish (or Portuguese?) the same influence as in the currency Rial. Also, He doesn't show where the final dh comes from. Even if his suggestion is correct, it will be misleading to say Riyadh is derived from PIE *reg as such claim may suggest a much older borrowing.
Really? So some of the words we think are PIE could actually be more ancient forms like Nostratic?
He said exactly the opposite. Riyadh is derived from a much younger borrowing and it would therefore be misleading to state a PIE etymology.
Yeah but essentially their saying Riyadh and Rial are are developed from the PIE root *reg I, or no?
No, he just said that there are paradigms for Spanish influence on Arabic.
So, Treatyand berndf, who is "he"? Jeffery? Would that be Arthur Jeffery, The Foreign Vocabulary of the Qurʼān ?
Can you say more about the alleged Spanish/Portuguese source words or "paradigms"?
My "he" is Treaty.
Could the -dh be a more archaic form and have shifted to -l?
I think d turns to l in Pashto.
Riyāḍ is the plural of rawḍa “garden”. Of course it has nothing to do with riyāl, which is from Spanish “real”.
Jeffery’s “Foreign vocabulary of the Qur’an” (1938) is an excellent book, but not everything he writes is correct. For the Qur’anic rawḍa Jeffery refers to an old theory by Vollers (1896) which derived this Arabic word from the Iranian root rud- : raud- “to grow”, Avestan raoδa- “growth” and raoδah- “river”, and Persian rōd “river”. Actually these words are probably not connected: The Persian word is from Old Persian rautah- (with t), related to Skt. sravati “flows”, while the Avestan words all have /δ/. But more to the point: in early Arabic /ḍ/ ض was not a kind of “d”, but a pharyngealised lateral. I do not know any other examples where Iranian /d/ or /δ/ is represented by /ḍ/ in early loanwords (/ḍ/ does stand for /d/ in some Turkish loanwords, but this is not relevant for early Arabic). rawḍa is more likely to come from the Arabic root r-w-ḍ “to tame an animal”; rawḍa would then be (at least originally) a park with tame animals and domesticated plants.
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