Romani/Gypsy: Comparison with Indian languages

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by SofiaB, Dec 9, 2006.

  1. SofiaB Senior Member

    English Asia
    I am posting some words and phrases in Romanes. I would like to know how similar they are to North Indian languages. Are they recognisable?

    I= Me/men/man you= tu you plural= tume we= ame he/she= voy they= von
    Numbers: yek, duy, trin, shtar, panj, shov, yefta, okhto, inya, desh,/11 deshu yek,12 deshu duy .20 bish, 21bish tay yek,22 bish tay duy.30 tranda,31 tranda tay yek,40 shtar var desh, 41,shtar var desh tay yek..,50 panj var desh…..
    Greeting= droboy tu , sar san tu? How are you? Mishto sim nayis tuke=fine thank you
    I love you= me kamav tu. Del,Devel=God, ja devlesa=go with God, jav tumesa I am going with you. Big= baro, small= cino, black=kaloh,white=parnoh
     
  2. DrLindenbrock Senior Member

    Italy
    Italy; Italian & Am. English
    I can make some comparison with Persian (the one spoken in Iran), which is strongly linked to Northern Indian languages (I won't write down all the story, it would be out of the scope of this thread ;) ).

    So, their seems to be a strong resemblance in:
    I = man
    You (singular) = to (informal)
    We = mâ
    Numbers in Persian
    1 Yek
    2 Do
    3 Se
    4 Chahâr
    5 Panj
    6 Shesh (or Shash, maybe both forms exist?)
    7 Haft
    8 Hasht
    9 No
    10 Da
    11 Yâzda
    12 Davâzda
    ...
    20 Bist
    21 Bist o yek (o = and, normally it would be "va" but in many cases it becomes "o")

    The similarities seem quite a bit to just be a coincidence, but the rest of the vocabulary and sentence structure seems quite different.
     
  3. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    There are a lot of similarities and a lot of differences from Indic languages. I'll post more latter.
     
  4. SofiaB Senior Member

    English Asia
    DrLindenbrock, Yes they are very much like Persian.

    Here are more words some are like Indic languages

    Luvu/loveh- money – lovara a tribe’s name
    Churi-knife-churara a tribe’s name

    Chor-steal/thief :
    Choom/chooma- kiss
    Jib- tonge jib -live jan- know man chi janav- I do not know
    Lon- salt pani- water

    Pukkar -say,tell pen –sister ,prala-brother
    Divus-day dekh-look gav- town o sap-the snake
     
  5. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Loon is salt in panjabi. A rustic word in my opinion so I am suprised to see the connection with Romani. I wonder how their pronunciation is. And do they write with devanagri?
     
  6. SofiaB Senior Member

    English Asia
    lon=loon pronunciation. It has no writing system until recently and even still many Rom were/are illiterate.Those who can write use the alphabet of the country they are in, French,Russian,etc.
    Is that the only word that you recognise? What about the numbers? I know that chor is also Hindi. Romanes has many Slovic words as well.
     
  7. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    That word stood out me especially because of its relation to a village Panjabi term. There were plenty others that stood out to me. When I get around to it, I'll post a more thorough post on those words and the Hindi for them.
     
  8. Arianton New Member

    Columbus, Ohio
    Basque Country/Belgium Basque, French, Flemish, Romanian
    My granfather is Roma, but he was adopted by a romanian couple thus he never learned to speak Romani. He did however study some when he was older. But I say that there is of course going to be a relationship between Romani words and words from Indic languages since the Roma came from that part of the world! The dialects of Romani are so different...I mean the Roma are mostly in the east and north and then there are the gitanos!
     
  9. karuna

    karuna Senior Member

    The planet Earth
    Latvian, Latvia
    There recently was an article in Latvian media about Roma people celebrating their autumn festival called "Šarad". And I know that šarad means "autumn" in Sanskrit or Hindi.
     
  10. dekkoman New Member

    hindi, india
    Wow,
    this is pretty amazing.
    Yeah, there seems to be more than a casual connection between 'ROMANI' and NI languages such as HINDI but particularly BHOJPURI and MARWARI.

    How, two sets of languages separated by 4K miles can be this similar is beyond me; but it shows that we're all the same.

    AnimeshG
    Tulsa, OK
     
  11. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    क्या आप ज़रा उदाहरण दे सकते हैं कि भोजपुरी और मारवारी में कौनसे शब्द सामान हैं?
     
  12. dekkoman New Member

    hindi, india
    mein maafi chahata hoon.
    I'm not a linguist or even an interested amateur; and was generally surfing when I chanced upon this forum.

    Reading some posts, i had a random thought that marwari, bhojpuri had some words similar to the roma language.

    To be honest I'd be hardpressed to remember any marwari words...:)
    ciao..
     
  13. faranji Senior Member

    Bahia (Brasil)
    portuñol
    Spanish gypsies (caló-speakers) say something is 'barí' when it's of remarkable quality. That always reminds me of hindi 'bariya hai'...
     
  14. MarcB Senior Member

    US English
    Some comparisons I have seen. The Farsi numbers are closer .
    Hindi numbers Ek,do,tin,char,panch,che,sat,okht,nau,das 1-2,20 bis
    Tu and tum for you man=I barra=big black=kala Romani baro and kalo
    Manush is man in Romani and manukh in Punjabi and manus in Hindi
    Sinti a Romani group the name is supposed to com from Sindhi in Pakistan
    There are more words similar to Romani from Sindhi.
     
  15. dekkoman New Member

    hindi, india
    For starters, i'd be very interested to know the Romani/Farsi equivalents for the following words. So go ahead if you have a few minutes

    Old (Vridha)
    Tree (Vriksha)--
    Year (Varsh)--
    God (Bhagwan/Khuda)--
    Time (samay)---
    South (Dakshin)
    North (Uttar)



    I read somewhere that there was a word called 'Kshetra' in persian and was pretty surprised?
     
  16. dev12jan New Member

    India - Hindi & English
    I= Me/men/man - Main (Hindi)

    you= tu - Tu (Surprisingly same even pronunciation in Hindi) - Same is spanish too

    you plural= tume - Tumhe (Hindi)

    we= ame - Hame (Hindi)

    he/she= voy -

    they= von - Voh (Hindi)

    Numbers:
    Ek
    Do
    Teen
    Char
    Paanch
    che
    saat
    aath
    noo
    das - 10
    gyarah - 11
    bis - 20
    ekis - 21
    this - 30
    ektis - 31

    Greeting= droboy tu , sar san tu? How are you? - Kaise hay?

    Mishto sim nayis tuke=fine thank you - Bahut aache, Dhanyawad


    I love you= me kamav tu.

    Del,Devel=God, - Bhagwan, Ishwar, Devta (Male), Devi (Female)

    ja devlesa=go with God,

    jav tumesa I am going with you. - Main tumhare saath jaaounga


    Big= baro, - Bara

    small= cino, - Chota

    black=kaloh, - Kala (Negro - Spanish)

    white=parnoh
    [/QUOTE] - Safed (Blanco - Spanish)



    एक वचन के संज्ञावाची शब्द जो हिन्दी मे आकारांत होते हैं, राजस्थानी भाषा में ये शब्द ओकारांत हो जाते हैं। जैसे, कुत्ता (हिन्दी) - कुत्तो (राजस्थानी), पोमचा (हिन्दी) - पोमचो (राजस्थानी).

    I am surprised to see the similarity of current/ recent marwari words which we use in our day to day life being part of Romany language. This is giving me an additional impetus to research my native language and grammer and apply it to learn something different.

    Few instances quoted by me to illustrate:
    čirikli - the bird Hindi – Chiriya, Marwari – Chirkali, Sanskrit – Pakshi, Vihag, Khag

    2. Mas – Flesh – MAAS in hindi
    3. Bal – Hair – BAL in Hindi
    4. Rat – Blood – RAKT in Hindi (Rudhir in Sanskrit)
    5. Nakh – Nose – Nak in Hindi (Nasika in Sanskrit)
    6. jakh – Eye – Aakh in Hindi (chakshu in Sanskrit)
    7. čhib – Tongue – Jhib in Hindi (Jihvaa in Sanskrit)
    8. Dand – Tooth – Dant in Hindi (Dantaa in Sanskrit)
    9. naj – Fingernail – Nakh in Hindi
    10. jílo – Heart – Hiye/ hiya in Marwari – dil in Hindi – Hridaya in Sanskrit


     
  17. samarth01 New Member

    Hindi&English&Braj
    Hi i am from north india...to be specific slight northwest of delhi....i can understand everything!!!! well apart from few that is

    the way its said in my region
    braj/rajasthani

    big=baro
    small=choto/chotu/cino
    white=goroh
    god=dev
    go=jav/(in hindi-jao)
    with you-tumesa (in hindi-tumhare saath)
    i love you is not exactly spoken as "me kamav tu" now in my region but i do understand it me=i kamav=(may derive from kama=love/sex) tu=you
    greeting is one which i cant really understand although mishto sim sounds like "sweet me" which in a sense may be interpreted as i am well.
    i=me/men/main
    you=tu
    plural you=tum log/tume
    we=ame/ami
    he/she does not match any language i know :p
     
  18. Epilio

    Epilio Senior Member

    Spanish - Spain
    I can add some words and expressions from the Caló, which is a creole language derived from mixing amongst Romani (or some dialect thereof) and the Iberian languages of Latin origin (mainly Spanish). It is, or rather was, spoken by the Spaniard Gypsies.

    Unfortunately the book I have doesn't offer many explanations; the author merely scribbled the words as he heard them.

    I - man, mangue, menda (this one is a dative form according to the Spanish Dictionary).
    You - tucué, tué
    He - ó, ondolé
    It - andayó
    We - amangue, mú
    You - sangué
    They - junós

    Man - gachó
    Woman - gachí, rumí
    Boy - chabó
    Girl - chabí
    White - parnó, plasnó
    Black - gayardó, gresnó, gelfe

    Tooth - dans, daní
    Tongue - chipí
    Nose - napia, ñaclé
    Foot - pinré
    Leg - pachimachí, jeriá
    Arm - murciá

    God - Batimují, Debel, Ondebel

    Grande - baró, baré (masc.), barí (fem.)
    Pequeño - chimó, nebaró

    To go - najar, chalar.
    To be - sinar
    To like - molar
    To love - camelar

    Good morning - lachós chibeses
    Good afternoon - lachís tasatás
    Good night - lachís tarachís
    Thank you - garapatís
    Thank you very much - baribustris garapatís

    One - Yequé
    Two - Duís
    Three - Trin
    Four - Ostar, sistar, star
    Five - Panché
    Six - Jobe, jol, zoy
    Seven - Eftá, ester, esñá
    Eight - Jorbe, otor
    Nine - Esniá, nebel
    Ten - Esdén, deque, azará
    Eleven - yesdeque
    Twelve - Duideque
    Twenty - Bin
    Thirty - Trianda
    Forty - Ostardí
    Fifty - Panchardí
     
  19. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    Romany is an Indo-Aryan languages, but the Gypsies borrowed a lot of words from the countries through which they passed, including Persian, Greek, Slavic languages etc.

    The language spoken by the Gypsies in Spain is not Romany. In its grammar it is Spanish, but it uses lots of Romany words.
     
  20. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Moderator note:

    Please discuss grammatical issues and word usages when comparing languages and avoid lists which are not allowed in the forum.

    All posts detailing mere lists shall be deleted from now on!
     

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