second-degree murder

Discussion in 'French-English Vocabulary / Vocabulaire Français-Anglais' started by Moon Palace, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    Hello everyone,
    I would like to know what is the equivalent to this US qualification of a crime please.

    In France we have 'homicide volontaire' and 'homicide involontaire', to mean murder with or without premeditation, but is 'second-degree murder' the equivalent of the latter?

    Thanks for your help.
     
  2. klodaway

    klodaway Senior Member

    "First degree murder" = Assassinat (il y a préméditation)
    "Second degree murder" = Meurtre (pas de préméditation, mais volontaire)
    "Manslaughter" = Homicide involontaire

    klod-
     
  3. pieanne

    pieanne Senior Member

    Nice Hinterland
    Belgium/French
  4. RuK Senior Member

    Outside Paris
    English/lives France
    Wikipedia:
    After the Supreme Court placed new requirements on the imposition of the death penalty, most states adopted one of two schemes. In both, third degree murder became the catch-all, while first degree murder was split. The difference was whether some or all first degree murders should be eligible for the most serious penalty (generally death, but sometimes life in prison without the possibility of parole.).
    The first scheme, used by Pennsylvania among other states:
    First Degree Murder: All premeditated murders, and (in some states) murders involving certain especially dangerous felonies, such as arson or rape, or committed by an inmate serving a life sentence.
    Second Degree Murder: Non pre-meditated killing.
    Third Degree Murder: Any other murder.
    The second scheme, used by New York among other states, as well as the Model Penal Code:
    First Degree Murder: Murder involving special circumstances, such as murder of a police officer, judge, fireman or witness to a crime; multiple murders; and torture or especially heinous murders. Note that a "regular" premeditated murder, absent such special circumstances, is not a first-degree murder; murders by poison or "lying in wait" are not per se first-degree murders. First degree murder is pre-meditated.
    Second Degree Murder: Any premeditated murder or felony murder that does not involve special circumstances.
    Some states, such as California, simply preserved the old distinction between two degrees and have no offense called third degree murder. They simply have "first-degree murder" (leading to life in prison with a possibility of parole) and "first-degree murder with special circumstances" (leading to death or life without the possibility of parole), while second-degree murder continues to be the default category (punished by life in prison with a shorter term until parole eligibility).
    Other states use the term "capital murder" for those offenses that merit death, and the term is often used even in states whose statutes do not include the term. As of 2006, 38 states and the federal government have laws allowing capital punishment for certain murders and related crimes (such as treason and terrorism). The penalty is rarely asked for and more rarely imposed, but it has generated tremendous public debate. See also capital punishment and capital punishment in the United States.

    It's an American term, and I don't think it's the same thing as "manslaughter", which is homicide involontaire.
     
  5. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    A thousand thanks to all of you, you have been most helpful as usual here. :)
    Here are the different French qualifications (from Wikipedia), so I would say 'second-degree murder' corresponds to 'homicide volontaire sans préméditation'.

    1. Homicide volontaire avec préméditation
    2. Homicide volontaire sans préméditation
    3. Homicide involontaire par coups et blessures ayant entraîné la mort sans intention de la donner
    4. Homicide involontaire par négligence
    To me, 'manslaughter' would be the last two categories.
    Hope this is right.
     
  6. helene james Senior Member

    français
    Juste une précision en revenant sur ce fil assez ancien: A ce qu'il me semble d'après l'intervention de Ruk, et d'autres sources trouvées sur le net, la conclusion de Moon Palace ne vaut pas partout, en tout cas pas dans l'Etat de New York, ni celui du Maryland.. Vu que là, "second degree murder" est défini comme "any premeditated murder"... Le "first degree" murder serait donc plutôt dans ce cas Meurtre avec circonstances agravantes, (comme barbarie, efforts faits à l'avance pour se débarrasser du corps, empoisonnement) là où le "second-degre murder" pourra très bien être un meurtre avec préméditation... Le problème étant, si j'en juge par ce que j'ai trouvé sur le site de l'état du Maryland (je travaille sur le livre Homicide, de David Simon, situé à Baltimore) que le "second degree murder" implique, non pas forcément la préméditation (mais possiblement) mais ce qui est décrit comme "malice aforethought", terme subtil car il peut ou non ou non, me semble-t-il, l'intention de donner la mort - l'intention de nuire en tout cas... Il ne recouvre pas par exemple les Felony Murders, commis sans préméditation dans la perpétration d'un autre crime, comme un braquage ou même un viol... Bref, je ne sais pas trop comment faire la distinction en français. Le meurtre sans préméditation ne me semblant pas correspondre exactement au "second-degree" tel qu'il est défini dans cet état du moins... Si quelqu'un a quelques idées sur ce thème... Merci...
     
  7. nb1203 Junior Member

    French
    Dit-on meutre au second degré en français ?
     
  8. helene james Senior Member

    français
    Non, pas que je sache.
     
  9. Moon Palace

    Moon Palace Senior Member

    Lyon
    French
    En fait, il semble bien que l'expression meurtre au second degré soit celle utilisée dans des textes faisant référence au système américain. C'est la traduction choisie par Wikipédia, mais on la trouve aussi dans de nombreux ouvrages de droit ou des romans dont l'action se déroule aux US.
    Cela dit, helene james a raison: la conclusion proposée était générale, et il faut forcément l'adapter au contexte, et donc au droit de chaque état des US selon leur définition de "second-degree murder".
     
  10. Hildy1 Senior Member

    English - US and Canada
    The definition of first-degree or second-degree murder varies according to jurisdiction. First-degree murder might for example include murder of a police officer, even without premeditation. For this reason it might be better to stick to a description rather than use the "degree" terminology.

    Using the categories listed by Moon Palace, and with some influence of Canadian law on the English wording:

    • Homicide volontaire avec préméditation - premeditated murder
    • Homicide volontaire sans préméditation - murder without premeditation
    • Homicide involontaire par coups et blessures ayant entraîné la mort sans intention de la donner - manslaughter
    • Homicide involontaire par négligence - criminal negligence causing death
     

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