Serbian (BCS): keep quiet -- different from other Slavic lingua

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by zilic, Sep 22, 2012.

  1. zilic New Member

    How comes that "remain silent" or "keep quiet"
    in Serbian ćutati whereas in
    Russian: молча́ть
    Bulgarian: мълча
    Polish: milczeć

    Is ćutati maybe of Turkish origin?
  2. Selyd Senior Member

    In Ukrainian:
    Looking that you want to underline.
    Мовчи,  Замовчи,  Змовкни,  Замовкни, Німуй, Цить!, Нишкни, Дотримуйся тиші, Стиш себе, Вгамуйся, Стули пельку.
  3. iobyo Senior Member

    Bitola, Macedonia
    HJP says šutjeti is of Slavic origin, and also gives a synonym: mučati, also Slavic.

    Macedonian has continuations of both forms: ќути, молчи.
  4. zilic New Member

    Now I remebered that Croatian has also the form: umukni
    Thank you
  5. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Skok in his Etimologijski rječnik devotes a whole page to the entry ćutjeti, from which modern ćutati (chiefly Serbian) and šutjeti (chiefly Croatian) are derived. Ćutjeti, in itself, also means "to sense", although it is now poetic/archaic. He also briefly speculates how it come to the shift of the meaning (first there was an extension of the meaning, and now it is practically the full shift):
    (There are some OCR errors above that I don't know how to fix, but you get the gist.)
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  6. francisgranada Senior Member

    For curiosity, in East Slovak dialects čuc means "to feel" (in some regions including "to hear"), while the Slovak standard čuť (arch., today rather počuť) means only "to hear" and cítiť "to feel". To keep quiet (tacere) is mlčať.
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2012
  7. ilocas2 Senior Member

  8. Azori Senior Member

    There is also the verb čušať (to be quiet, to keep silent) in standard Slovak.
  9. francisgranada Senior Member

    It's true indeed :), though etymologically it seems not to belong neighter to čuť nor to cítiť.
  10. chernobyl Member

    Sofia, Bulgaria
    In some Bulgarian dialects we have кютя (kyutya) which sounds related to the Serbian one. I don't know where it comes from, but almost all our words starting in "кю" are from Turkish origin, so maybe this one is Turkish too.
  11. Christo Tamarin

    Christo Tamarin Senior Member

    I agree with chernobyl. Both Serbian ćutati and Bulgarian dialectal кютя are from Turkish origin.

  12. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    I disagree. That does not explain Croatian šutjeti and the pretty obvious relation with ćutati 'sense', with parallels in other Slavic languages. Turkish küt and kütük do not even have a similar meaning. That Serbo-Croatian semantic drift is unusual indeed, but it's not an uncommon process in Slavic world.
  13. Christo Tamarin

    Christo Tamarin Senior Member

    I did not try to explain Croation šutjeti: that has been already done by iobyo:

    Note: кюти and мълчи can be found in Bulgarian also.

    The words ćutati and šutjeti cannot be related: there is no explanation of the sound changes.

    The following semantic shift occurred in Turkish dialects and can explain both Bulgarian кюти and Serbian ćutati: blunt your desire to speak.
  14. Duya Senior Member

    Not in WR world
    Do you have any references for that theory? For mine, I quoted Skok above, which is an old (pre-WWII) but still respectable author.
  15. Vanja Senior Member

    They are related. Šutjeti (Croatian) - šutati (in some parts of BiH) - ćutati (Serbian). Šutnja - ćutnja (silence, hush)
    (Š, Č, Ć, Đ, DŽ could be mixed up)

    Mukati in Srb means "to moo" (cows moo, moo-sound). Mukanje krave, krava muče, mukanje > mučanje could be heard too

    There are umuknuti, umući, zamući, zamuknuti (замолчите, замолчи), utajiti (утаивать), ne govoriti (неговорить), onemiti, zanemiti (онеметь)
    (similar sounds, I'm not sure do the verbs mean the same, I don't know Russian very well)
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2012
  16. Lanmi New Member

    Serbian - Serbia
    I've only heard the perfective forms "muknuti" and "umuknuti" in Serbian - the first isn't common in literature but is heard dialectically (at least in southeastern Serbia) while the other is more common. Both are more informal than "(u)ćutati", while "ćuti!" is rude, too.

    The "ol" cluster in verbs such as in "молчать" is always realised as "u" in Serbian. Another example of it is "vuk" (wolf)
  17. Enchy

    Enchy New Member

    Umukni is more offensive than 'ćuti' or 'ućuti'. Ćutati is more common than 'umukni'.
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013

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