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sich unter den Begriff hätte bringen lassen

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by Löwenfrau, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. Löwenfrau

    Löwenfrau Senior Member

    São Paulo
    Brazilian Portuguese
    Hello!

    Can I translate the following phrase in blue:

    "Die Quantität war seit Aristoteles einer der beiden Haupteinteilungsgründe für die Arten der Urteile und Schlüsse; »Caius ist ein Mensch«, »Einige Menschen sind reich«, »Alle Menschen sind sterblich« – nach diesem Schema wurde der Syllogismus eingeteilt; und kaum beachtet, daß auch der andere Einteilungsgrund (bejahende und verneinende Urteile) sich mit einiger Rechthaberei unter den Begriff der Quantität hätte bringen lassen." F. Mauthner

    as "... would with some obstinacy be subsumed under the concept of quantity" ?
     
  2. manfy Senior Member

    Singapore
    German - Austria
    That sounds about right, except:
    "hätte sich bringen lassen" conveys the meaning "hätte gebracht werden können", hence "could have been subsumed" sounds closer to the original.
     
  3. perpend Senior Member

    American English
    I would go for "could" too, for the subjunctive part.

    I understand it more like "...; and hardly noticed that, with a dose of dogma, the other ... could have also been categorized under the term "quantity".

    EDIT: Or is "concept of quantity" a set phrase in the text?
     
  4. Löwenfrau

    Löwenfrau Senior Member

    São Paulo
    Brazilian Portuguese
    Ok, so 'could' it is!

    Perpend:
    You really think "dogma" is more appropriate here than "obstinacy"?

    It's important to keep "concept", because the mainstream discussion here is language from the point of view of Logic, and in the former paragraph he was discussing Kant's categories (which are called "concepts of understanding").
     
  5. berndf Moderator

    Geneva
    German (Germany)
    I don't think so. Dogma or dogmatism doesn't fit here. The meaning of Rechhaberei here is that you are prepared to bend and twist things in all possible directions to make your opinion sound right.
     
  6. Löwenfrau

    Löwenfrau Senior Member

    São Paulo
    Brazilian Portuguese
    Exactly. That's what we call in Brazil "forçação de barra" (in English perhaps 'to keep pushing and pushing...')
     
  7. perpend Senior Member

    American English
    I'm not sure, but my feeling is that "obstinacy" is more subjective or feeling-based, whereas "Rechthaberei" could be based in principles and theory and what have you ... meaning that there is some research to back up one's opinions.

    Now, it is of course a fine line, and it's all a bit relative where "obstinacy" turns into "being dogmatic" and vice-versa.

    I think "Rechthaberei" is based on "rechthaberisch", and here's what Leo says for both, for what it's worth!

    http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.h...oc=0&resultOrder=basic&multiwordShowSingle=on

    http://dict.leo.org/ende/index_de.h...oc=0&resultOrder=basic&multiwordShowSingle=on
     
  8. berndf Moderator

    Geneva
    German (Germany)
    Being rechthaberisch is a subjective character trait. It has certainly nothing to do with research. Quite on the contrary: You would call someone rechthaberisch, if he defends his position obstinately, even though there is little substance to it. See my definition above.
     

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