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Slovak: Ja som neni

Discussion in 'Other Slavic Languages' started by Ayazid, Apr 17, 2010.

  1. Ayazid Senior Member

    Zdravím vespolek,

    dnes jsem se dozvěděl, že v hovorové slovenštině je možné říct "ja som neni" vedle spisovného "nie som". Chtěl bych se zeptat jestli tahle konstrukce, která zní mým českým uším docela neobvykle (původně jsem si myslel, že to musí být překlep snad), je velmi rozšířená a ve kterých oblastech Slovenska se nejvíc používá. Taky by bylo zajímavé vědět jestli to není třeba doslovný překlad z nějakého jiného jazyka (snad maďarštiny nebo němčiny), což by dávalo smysl, vzhledem k tomu, že některé oblasti Slovenska byli/jsou národnostně docela smíšené.
     
  2. Xmaniak New Member

    Slovakia
    Slovak
    Pokiaľ viem tak "Ja som neni." sa používa podobne často ako "Nie som.".
     
  3. slavic_one

    slavic_one Senior Member

    Prague, Czech Republic
    Croatian (štokavski, jekavski)
    A hlavne sa to používa aj v iných osobách.
    Vätšinou sa tak hovorí na západnom Slovensku, s tím, že sa to napr. v Trnave vyslovuje tvrdo (tzn. "n" sa v oboch prípadoch nemekčí).
     
  4. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    Z maďarštiny to určitě není: nem vagyok = ne jsem
    Možná z němčiny: ich bin nicht
     
  5. Azori

    Azori Senior Member

    Oprava :)

    Neni je nespisovný zápor, používa sa namiesto "nie", "nie je", napr. neni som = nie som, to neni = to nie je... Je to dosť bežné.
     
  6. vianie Senior Member

    Slovak
    Čo ja viem, tak v Bratislave sa hovorí aj "nejsom" a na strednom Slovensku zas "ja som nie".

    V slovenskom Ríme údajne aj mačky mnaukajú. ;)

    Pozadie vzniku "trojjedinosti" slovenskej vravy je v skratke vysvetlené hneď na začiatku tohto článku na Wikipédii.
     
  7. slavic_one

    slavic_one Senior Member

    Prague, Czech Republic
    Croatian (štokavski, jekavski)
    Tiež, hej.

    :D
    When in Rome (Trnava), do as the Romans do. Tak aj tie mačky. :)
     
  8. Fee.de.Foret New Member

    Slovak
    Pouziva sa to casto, ale je to nespisovne, cize v oficialnom pisomnom prejave alebo pred kamerou atd. riadne faux pas :D
     
  9. boriszcat

    boriszcat Senior Member

    Slovakia / Slovacco / Slowakei / Slovensko
    English - US and Dude - a California dialect
    My understanding is that this is not correct Slovak, but it is very common for native Slovak speakers to borrow Czech words freely and substitute them directly for similar words.
     
  10. francisgranada Senior Member

    Slovakia
    Hungarian
    Even if it's an old thread, I'd like to add the following:

    Expressions like "neni som", "neni sme", "ja som není" etc ... are not used at all in East Slovakia. But the proper word "neni" (pronounced ňeňi) is very frequent and almost "regularly" used instead of "nie je" (like in Czech) in the colloquial speach.
     
  11. francisgranada Senior Member

    Slovakia
    Hungarian
    It's not so simple ... It's fact that there is plenty of Slovak words that are borrowings (or adaptations) from Czech. This adaptations/borrowings happened not only during the period of Czechoslovakia, but even before, in the 19th century, when the standard Slovak language was "created". But it doesn't mean that nowadays it would be "common for native Slovak speakers to borrow Czech words freely". At least, I don't think so.
     
  12. franglaiise Senior Member

    slovaque
    We do use Czech words and structures quite often. I think the reason is that Slovaks watch Czech TV a lot and as the two languages are so close, it is easy to pick up some frequently used Czech structures even if you're trying to resist and speak Slovak properly. :)
     
  13. Azori

    Azori Senior Member

    I'm not sure if watching Czech TV can have any considerable influence on one's "proper Slovak". There are still a rather large number of common everyday Czech words for which standard Slovak doesn't have any (be it similar or identical) equivalents. Personally, I don't know anybody who would use even such common Czech words like teď (now), zde (here), mluvit (to speak), dělat (to do) etc. freely in their Slovak. The verb říci (to say) is also very common in Czech and yet in Slovak riecť is just considered literary and hardly ever used in colloquial speech. Regarding structures, I don't think that one can really pick up much here either. If say, in Czech "at eight o'clock in the morning" translates as "v osm hodin ráno" and in Slovak it is "o ôsmej hodine ráno", then just watching Czech TV certainly would not change my habits and make me use the preposition v instead of o in this case.
     
  14. franglaiise Senior Member

    slovaque
    Of course, it's not only TV, it's other media as well. I'm not an expert but I dare say that we do pick up a lot even if there is an equivalent in Slovak. Of course, we don't pick up all of it and I can't explain why we prefer one term or structure over another but it just happens.

    People also use Slovak influenced by Czech in media. Don't know why, maybe they like it or they're too lazy to translate it properly. Anyway, we're exposed to Czech and to Slovak influenced by Czech quite a lot.

    Granted, nobody says v osem hodín and yet there are Czech structures that we commonly use even though we have the equivalent for them. For example:

    Petr je závislý na alkoholu. (CZ) – Peter je závislý od alkoholu. (correct SK) – Peter je závislý na alkohole. (commonly used SK)
     
  15. Azori

    Azori Senior Member

    What do you mean by "Slovak influenced by Czech"? Is there (standard) Slovak that hasn't been influenced by Czech?
     
  16. vianie Senior Member

    Slovak
    I think that the situation with the Czech influences on/in Slovak is not such terrible. What's perhaps more significant, it's not such one-sided. I've been increasingly confronted with the fact how some Czechs freely use Slovak words or accent in their speech and it's quite nice. However from #11 we are completely off-topic.
     

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