So fares it with Flosi's redes

Discussion in 'Polski (Polish)' started by arturolczykowski, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    Mam taka piesn z tej ksiazki:

    Here I ride swift steed,
    His flank flecked with rime,
    Rain from his mane drips,
    Horse mighty for harm;
    Flames flare at each end,
    Gall glows in the midst,
    So fares it with Flosi's redes
    As this flaming brand flies;
    And so fares it with Flosi's redes
    As this flaming brand flies.

    Moglbym liczyc na wasza pomoc w przetlumaczeniu? Flosi's redes to namowy, rady Flosiego.....
    Proszę o pomoc z wersetem "so fares it with Flosi's redes
     
  2. BezierCurve Senior Member

    To będzie coś w znaczeniu:

    "Tak to jest, kiedy posłucha się rady Flosiego"

    Dla pewności zapytałbym jednak na forum angielskiego.
     
  3. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Hi, Artur. Which version of the book does this part come from -- which translation -- there might be a few? (It was originally written in Icelandic, I think). Perhaps some people in the Scandinavian forum can compare it with the Icelandic original. I personally think "redes" might be related to red here, perhaps -- the color of the horse's mane (otherwise "ride" -- maybe)
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  4. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
  5. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Thank you. Which chapter is it?
     
  6. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    sto dwudziesty czwarty - 124
     
  7. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    I really think it means "red" here, "redness", but you could post it in the English Only Forum, or Icelandic.
     
  8. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    Rede means advice in Old English and it suits the context...
     
  9. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Well, the translation from Icelandic is not in Old English. (it may be slightly stylized, but it is not Old English). Your best bet would be to ask this question in the Scandinavian forum. Maybe somebody has the original. I have it in a musical form in Icelandic, but I cannot really understand spoken, or sung, Icelandic that well, and I could not find the original anywhere else.
     
  10. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    LilanaB I'm asking about English translation not Icelandic. As you and myself don't know Icelandic why insist on that language? I need only the meaning in English version.....
     
  11. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    I know Icelandic to some degree. I just don't think it means "advice" here -- it sounds very unlikely in this context. This is why I thought it might be wise to compare it with the original, if you were to translate it later into Polish. It is always better to translate from the original -- any type of literature, and in fact, other texts as well.

    If you were to go with the word related to advice -- "rede" -- you could consider other possible meanings -- "explanation, a story". In this case "a story" might be better, but it is really very hard to translate a text already translated from another language, especially poetry. The only other possibility I could see would be a plan (compared to the fire horse -- to its movement, or perhaps just the fire, and the horse he was riding). It does not make much sense, in my opinion, as "namowa", perhaps "plan". "Zgodnie z jego planem, tak jak Flosi chciał". (I had the wrong impression first that Flosi was a horse -- he was the uncle) His plans went as smoothly as the horse, sort of.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2013
  12. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    Njalsbrenna to islandzka saga, i wiersz został przetlumaczony prawdopodobnie ze staronordyckiego (norrønt). Tłumacz używa tutaj Staroangielskich wyrazów, których nikt na polskim forum nie zna. Usilowałem znaleźć tekst oryginalny, ale tylko kawałek jest dostępny na sieci, tego, który zacytowałeś nie ma. Proponuję zwrócić się do forum islandzkiego, lub norweskiego (tam też możesz trafić na znawcę literatury staronordyckiej).
     
  13. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    I agree with you, Ben Jamin, especially that the text was translated in 1800s. "Redes" could be a "plan" here, but it could also be related to the color "red", and the word slightly changed for artistic purposes -- to fit the rhythm. Perhaps Flosi had red hair -- this is really what I think, but I could not find the confirmation of it anywhere, since I don't have the text. Then, I got talked into believing that it might be actually "a plan", but the best thing would be to really get the original.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2013
  14. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    Just forget the oryginal. I'm translating the English version and am asking only for this.....
     
  15. BezierCurve Senior Member

    "So fares it" to, w zależności od kontekstu, "tak to wygląda", "tak to jest", "w ten sposób się dzieje" etc.

    Tutaj jest kilka przykładowych zdań, warto zwrócić uwagę na znaczenie #2 i #4.
     
  16. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
  17. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    Dziekuje BezierCurve.
     
  18. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    No, I don't think it can be "advice" in this context. If anything -- "plan" (otherwise "red" or "redness" of his hair and beard as he rides the horse) For that, however, I would love to have the original. From whatever I remember, I think he was red-haired. "It goes with his plan" or "like the redness of his hair" .
     
  19. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    :thumbsup: Zastanawiam się jak to zgrabnie przełożyć na Polski by zachowało swój archaiczny charakter, bo 'so fares it' we współczesnej angielszczyźnie raczej nie uświadczymy, a sam czasownik 'fare' też już co raz rzadziej, chociaż ciągle jest w użyciu. Nic nie przychodzi mi jednak do głowy. Twoje sugestie, choć znakomicie oddają znaczenie, brzmią mi zbyt współcześnie.
     
  20. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Why would you translate it as "tak to jest"?. Even if we reject the redness option -- I would say it is closer to "zgodnie z planem". I cannot really see any basis for this version ("tak wygląda")
     
  21. BezierCurve Senior Member

    Zdaję sobie sprawę, że moje przykłady nie pasują idealnie w tym przypadku, tym bardziej do poetyckiej wersji przekładu. W dodatku "tak to jest" ma w polskim wydźwięk prawie zawsze pejoratywny. Jedyne co chciałem, to przybliżyć znaczenie. Gdybym miał pomyśleć nad czymś bardziej poetyckim (czy też archaicznym), to, wybaczcie brak wyczucia, może:

    Tak za radą Flosiego podążam
    Jak ta mknąca pochodnia.

    lub:

    Za Flosiego namową nas niesie
    Jak tę mknącą pochodnię

    Prawdopodobnie istnieje jakaś odpowiednia, bezosobowa, literacka forma odpowiadająca "so fares it", nie przychodzi mi jednak teraz do głowy.
     
  22. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    A co z
    ?
     
  23. BezierCurve Senior Member

    Żółć jaśnieje pośrodku?
     
  24. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    No wlasnie: zolc czy rana (otarcie)? Posrodku plomienna rana.... ???
     
  25. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    A moze faktycznie chodzi tylko o kolor konia, o czerwien z przodu i tylu i zolc posroku..... sam juz nie wiem :confused:
     
  26. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    Jednak nie, wczesniej jest wspomniane, ze kon byl szary....
     
  27. BezierCurve Senior Member

    Może faktycznie chodzi o rany. Jeżeli nie wynika to jasno z kontekstu, to pewnie musisz sam zdecydować (albo dotrzeć do oryginału, jeżeli się uda).
     
  28. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Hi, Artur. I found the Swedish version, no luck with the Icelandic one. "Redes" is translated as "råd" -- will, or plan in this context, and the "gall" is translated as "etter" -- venom. Otherwise it is exactly the same poem. So, I think you can translate "redes" as "zgondie z jego planem, z jego wolą, tak jak jego plan". Maybe you can find the best word for venom, or evil, in this context. "jad" maybe.
     
  29. arturolczykowski

    arturolczykowski Senior Member

    Farnham, UK
    Polish
    Thank you all.
     

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