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  1. kazien Senior Member

    USA, English
    Hola neteros/as, cómo se traduce la palabra "sobreesdrújula?" Creo que es algo que tiene que ver con la gramática. Gracias!
     
  2. Zaidd Senior Member

    Chile
    Spanish-Chile
    Se refiere a las palabras que se acentúan en la trasantepenúltima sílaba. Casi todas las palabras sobreesdrújulas se tildan. Ejemplos: quí-ta-me-lo, dí-ga-se-lo, efectivamente. No creo que tenga traducción al inglés.
    Saludos
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  3. St. Nick Senior Member

    English
    Hi

    En inglés sería el "preantepenultimate."
     
  4. Zaidd Senior Member

    Chile
    Spanish-Chile
    Hi Nick, so it will be 'a word stressed on its preantepenultimate syllable'?
    Regards
     
  5. St. Nick Senior Member

    English
    Hi

    Yes, that sounds great.
     
  6. grubble

    grubble Senior Member

    South of England, UK
    British English
    Well okay

    preantepenultimate
    ultimate = last
    penultimate = last but one
    antepenultimate = last but two
    preantepenultimate = last but three

    An Esdrújula is a word where the emphasis is placed on the third to last syllable. Example: esdrújula

    ....................................................................................................


    But, honestly, in the interests of plain speaking, wouldn't it be easier both to say and to understand ...

    A sobreesdrújula is a word where the emphasis is placed on the fourth to last syllable.

    ?
     
  7. Zaidd Senior Member

    Chile
    Spanish-Chile
    A sobreesdrújula is 'a word stressed on its preantepenultimate syllable'= 10w

    ...I don't see your point
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  8. grubble

    grubble Senior Member

    South of England, UK
    British English
    Firstly if you want to use maths then you need to compare like with like:

    A sobreesdrújula is 'a word stressed on its preantepenultimate syllable' 10 words
    A sobreesdrújula is 'a word stressed on its fourth to last syllable' 12 words


    Secondly ignore the padding and look at the important words:
    preantepenultimate - 7 syllables
    fourth to last - 3 syllables


    Thirdly
    In order linguistically to understand an utterance we need to scan it at a single glance. I defy anyone to understand preantepenultimate at first glance without pausing to think what it means. On the other hand "fourth to last" is idiomatic English that every native speaker can read instinctively.

    Do you see my point now?
     
  9. Pinairun

    Pinairun Senior Member

    A word accented on any syllabe preceding the antepenultimate.

    Only verbs + enclitic pronouns are "sobresdrújulas": Arréglaselo, viéndosele, llamándotelo, llevástemelo...
     
  10. St. Nick Senior Member

    English
    Its Spanish synonym is anteantepenúltima. Who cares how many syllables it contains?
     
  11. grubble

    grubble Senior Member

    South of England, UK
    British English
    (a) Not according to Real Academia Espanola it isn't. http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=%20anteantepen%FAltima. If you hang around on the forum long enough you will discover that (apart from when talking about slang) most educated Spanish speakers only accept words that are recognised by RAE or, at a stretch, the Diccionario de María Moliner http://www.diclib.com/cgi-bin/d1.cgi?l=en&base=moliner&page=showindex

    (b) It was Zaidd who started making numerical comparisons in post #7. All I did was point out that his mathematical reasoning was both faulty and misplaced.

    Don't get me wrong, I thought your contribution was interesting and valid. I merely asked the question "... wouldn't it be easier both to say and to understand ... <alternative translation>" I think that is a valid question and for me the answer is "yes it would." I am not even the first to say this. I just searched online and found the following link:

    preantepenultimate Really, what's the point? Isn't it just as easy to say fourth from last? No wonder it's obsolete.
    http://obsoleteword.blogspot.com/2006/03/preantepenultimate.html


    Long words are fun and often I use them myself but when providing a translation (remember that this is the purpose of the forum ;)), I see no problem in offering the OP alternatives and saying how they sound to a native speaker.

    Example
    If someone asked for the translation of "ladrillo" and the answer given was, say, a "roughlyoblongpieceofbakedclayusedforbuildinghousesetcetera". I think I could reasonably point out that a shorter answer is "brick". At that point it is up to the OP to choose which s/he prefers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2011
  12. St. Nick Senior Member

    English
    Those who are familiar with the DRAE are fully aware that thousands of adverbs (e.g., sorprendentemente, desafortunadamente, empalagosamente), adjectives (e.g., maldiciente), and nouns (e.g., parón) that are created by appending common morphemes go unlisted.

    Nor is the blogosphere considered a reliable source for information involving specialized terminology. While words such as sobreesdrújula, antepenúltima, preantepenultimate, and antepenultimate do not pop up regularly in everyday conversation, the terms are standard fare for anyone dealing with phonetics. Most school kids over 12 would have little trouble deciphering the prefixes 'pre' and 'ante' or the adjective 'penultimate.'

    "Fourth from last" is inaccurate. 'Third from (the) last,' 'fourth to (the) last,' or 'fourth-last are precise.'

    Contributing for the sake of future visitors to the thread is far more important.
     
  13. gmelean Junior Member

    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Spanish - Venezuela
    If you look at the definition of "sobreesdrújulo/la" at the DRAE, it says: "Que lleva el acento prosódico en una sílaba anterior a la antepenúltima".

    So, the accent could be in the preantepenultimate or further syllable.


    Examples:
    intensivamente, cuidadosamente ("acento prosódico" on the fouth syllable from right to left).
    devuélvemelo, queriéndotelo ("acento prosódico" and "acento ortográfico" (tilde) on the fouth syllable from right to left).
    químicamente, sicamente ("acento prosódico" and "acento ortográfico" on the fifth syllable from right to left).

    Here are one-word names for these accents:

    1) palabras agudas = acute words = oxytone words = stress on the first syllable (from right to left)
    2) palabras graves / palabras llanas = paroxytone words = stress on the second syllable
    3) palabras esdrújulas = proparoxytone words = stress on the third syllable
    4) palabras sobreesdrújulas = over-proparoxytone words = stress on the fourth or further syllable

    I realize that these words: oxytone, paroxytone, etc., are barely used.
     

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