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sonzai

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by JapanForever, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Hi there,
    What does "sonzai" 存在 mean precisely? I know it means literally "existence presence" but sometimes it often showed in sentences for example I found it : "boku no sonzai" "imouto no sonzai"...Is it emphatic or something?
    Please!
    Thanks for your answers
     
  2. wanabee Senior Member

    Japanese
    Hi!
    Please give some context and sentences in which you saw ぼくの存在 and 妹の存在.:)
     
  3. Flaminius

    Flaminius coclea mod

    capita Iaponiae
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    存在 is often used as short for 存在すること in sentences. Does that help you understand your sentences?

    If this is not helpful enough, please post a sentence with sufficient context.
     
  4. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Can it mean "presence" in "imouto no sonzai" The sentence is english is "He dotes upon imouto no sonzai" so he dotes upon the presenece of his sister?
     
  5. wanabee Senior Member

    Japanese

    Hi, JapanForever!

    "He dotes upon imouto no sonzai." can be rephrased as "He dotes upon the presence (or existence) of his sister."
    [FONT=MS 明朝](彼は,妹の存在を,溺愛している。)[/FONT]
    That doesn't make sense, does it? :(

    "He dotes upon his sister." is much clearer and understandable (meaning
    [FONT=MS 明朝]彼は,を,溺愛している。).[/FONT]

    The following example seems to me proper usage of "
    [FONT=MS 明朝]妹の存在[/FONT]":

    e.x.
    I greatly appreciate my sister's presence in my life. (meaning
    [FONT=MS 明朝]私は,私の人生において,妹の存在に本当に感謝しています。[/FONT])

    If you'd like more explanation, you would need to provide more context. (Also see Flaminius's post. I think it's concise and to the point.)

    FranceForever! wanabee
    :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2012
  6. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    That's nearly the same setence as your first, except that [FONT=MS 明朝]溺愛して was before [/FONT][FONT=MS 明朝],妹の存在を...[/FONT]
     
  7. wanabee Senior Member

    Japanese
    [FONT=MS 明朝]僕の存在[/FONT] is not a sentence, but it’s a noun.

    A)
    [FONT=MS 明朝]ぼく(僕)[/FONT]means: I, me
    [FONT=MS 明朝]いもうと(妹)[/FONT]means: my sister (Let's assume [FONT=MS 明朝]妹[/FONT] is [FONT=MS 明朝]私の妹[/FONT].)

    B)
    [FONT=MS 明朝]存在[/FONT] means: presence, existence

    C)
    [FONT=MS 明朝]僕の存在[/FONT] means:
    1) my presence (here, in this world, beside you, etc.) ;
    2) my existence (here, in this world, beside you, etc.);
    3) the fact that I am/was present (here, in this world, beside you, etc.); or,
    4) the fact that I exist/existed (here, in this world, beside you, etc.)

    D)
    [FONT=MS 明朝]妹の存在[/FONT] means:
    1) my sister's presence (here, in this world, beside me, etc.);
    2) my sister's existence (here, in this world, beside me, etc.);
    3) the fact my sister is/was present (here, in this world, beside me, etc.); or,
    4) the fact that my sister exits/existed (here, in this world, beside me, etc.)

    E)
    [FONT=MS 明朝]僕(妹)の存在[/FONT] and [FONT=MS 明朝]僕(妹)[/FONT]could overlap from time to time, depending on the context, for example;

    Please don't forget me even if you should marry another man.
    [FONT=MS 明朝]あなたが別の男と結婚したとしても,([/FONT] or [FONT=MS 明朝]僕の存在[/FONT][FONT=MS 明朝])を忘れないでください。[/FONT]
    In this sentence, either choice is possible, but using [FONT=MS 明朝]僕の存在[/FONT] sounds more serious than a simple [FONT=MS 明朝]僕[/FONT].
     
  8. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    Thanks wanabee. ^^
     
  9. Ryukishin

    Ryukishin Junior Member

    Jakarta
    Indonesia
    In another case, I think 存在 can also mean "(the meaning) of one's presence/existence"
    i.e 貴方にとって私はどういう存在ですか ?
    What Am I to you ?/What do I mean to you ? or what is the meaning of my existence (to you) !?
    :D
     
  10. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    I came back on this topic because I wanted to ask: does it can mean "entity" too? I have got this sentence 自分や妹のような永遠に近い存在 and I would like to know if that's truly entity here?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2012
  11. Ryukishin

    Ryukishin Junior Member

    Jakarta
    Indonesia
    "自分や妹のような永遠に近い存在"
    in this sentence, I think It does mean entity/being/existence.
    because the "
    近い存在" basically means the close existence, or the existence of a certain person that you think is eternally close just like the "妹" :3
    this is the only answer I can come up with
    I hope It sorta helps :D

     
  12. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    So isn't it more presence in this case? By the way I noticed sonzai was often used.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2012
  13. Ryukishin

    Ryukishin Junior Member

    Jakarta
    Indonesia
    Yes It is :D
    Of course, "Sonzai" is a japanese word that is commonly used after all
     
  14. Flaminius

    Flaminius coclea mod

    capita Iaponiae
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    At a first glance, I thought the same thing. On a second thought, however, I don't understand being eternally close. [Maybe it makes sense in English but 永遠に近い does not.]

    I think 永遠 is a poor choice of word for immortality. 不死に近い存在 would make better sense.
     
  15. JapanForever Senior Member

    French
    So isn"t it rather "he and the eternal presence of his sister?" in this case?
     

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