Start-Ziel

Discussion in 'Deutsch (German)' started by oostnic, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. oostnic Senior Member

    Devon, UK
    English - UK
    Hi,

    I am translating a piece on an operations management system that has 'Start-Ziel Betrachtung des Schienentransportes' (it's a rail operations management system). Would this mean that all aspects of the transportation are considered, from the starting point to the destination? Could you say 'end-to-end' for Start-Ziel?

    THanks for any comments
     
  2. Robocop Senior Member

    Central Switzerland
    (Swiss) German
    I don't understand the expression "Start-Ziel Betrachtung" at all.
     
  3. perpend

    perpend Senior Member

    American English
    Is it just not idiomatic German, Robocop? What do you mean? I could see where it could mean "beginning-to-end" or "end-to-end" or even "point-to-point" from oostnic's description. But maybe it's technical jargon. Maybe also "comprehensive"? Okay, I'm typing out loud now. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  4. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    Hi, I have a question to spelling.
    Is it really "Start-Ziel Betrachtung des Schienentransports"? In this spelling it is indeed not idiomatic/correct.
    This would be fuzzy.
    It should either be

    "Start-Ziel-Betrachtung des Schienentransports" - Here I think they mean something like "Contemplation/reflection/overview about the railroad transport regarding the way from the starting point to the ending point"
    or
    "Start-Ziel, Betrachtung des Schienentransports" - The same meaning, but in contrast to other kinds of transport.

    Is it a headline or in a table?
    Is it just a spelling error or a new (non-standard) kind of spelling (Anglicism without "-" sign)?

    Another interpretation could be:

    Start is the beginning of the project. (Nothing is build or projected yet. There is only a plan.)
    Ziel is the end point of the project. (All is ready.)

    Even in this case it is wrong spelling.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013
  5. Robocop Senior Member

    Central Switzerland
    (Swiss) German
    I know the expression "Start-Ziel-Sieg", meaning that the winner was in front during the entire race or competition. I don't see any obvious analogy for guessing a meaning of "Start-Ziel-Betrachtung".
     
  6. oostnic Senior Member

    Devon, UK
    English - UK
    Yes sorry, Hutschi, I spelt it wrongly. There is an additional hyphen: Start-Ziel-Betrachtung, so I am understanding it to mean that they are taking an end-to-end overview of the transport (although I can't find a non-clumsy way of saying that - 'holistic approach' maybe?)
     
  7. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    Hi, oostnic,

    "Betrachtung" is not a simple "overview" in this context but it is, for example, to think about it, to get or show/give an overview, or to investigate the facts. It is not an overview in the sense of a picture but in the sense of reflection/contemplation.

    I think, too, that start and end is the start and end point of the railroad in your context.

    But in some context it may be start or end of a project (in project planning). You should check this.

    Either it is considering all the way from end to end
    or it is considering the project from end to end.

    I remember about "Start-Ziel-Betrachtung" in connection with project management. It uses also terms like "roadmap" and others.

    So you should look whether they mean the railway itself or the project and planning of a railway.

    For example, the start could be the old railway station and the Ziel (goal) can be the reconstructed new railway station and "Betrachtung" is to find the steps for reconstruction.

    If it means the railway itself, it is end to end investigation (in the sense of contemplation, not in the sense of going there and investigate) including all the way from end to end.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
  8. ABBA Stanza Senior Member

    Hessen, DE
    English (UK)
    I agree that "end-to-end" sounds quite plausible to me. I assume that this implies a consideration of the entire route (i.e., Gesamtstrecke) from initial location to final destination. So, when assessing the feasibility of rail transport, one has to factor in the cost, time, etc., of getting the goods to and from the train at either end.

    But, as Robocop rightly points out, there's a considerable amount of guessing here, so hopefully you have more context in the original document you're translating to back this up (or otherwise).

    Cheers
    Abba

    P.S. Crossed with Hutschi.
     
  9. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    Hi Abba, "I assume that this implies a consideration of the entire route (i.e., Gesamtstrecke) from initial location to final destination."
    This is what I wanted to express. You said it in a very clear way.

    Guessing here is mainly whether they mean the route in a literal sense (railroad) or in sense of project planning.
     

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