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subject to be / subject to being

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Grammar / Gramática Español-Inglés' started by Cheeky-Monkey, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. Cheeky-Monkey Senior Member

    Spain
    Castellano
    I have came across this sentence:

    "This would suggest the pipe has been subject to remediation efforts or subject to being deemed rejected"

    I undertand the menaing of the sentence but I wonder about the grammar structure, could it be:


    "be jubject to + be + noun"
    "be jubject to be + geround + adjective"


    Thank you.
     
  2. BrooklynBoy

    BrooklynBoy Senior Member

    English - Nueva York
  3. Cheeky-Monkey Senior Member

    Spain
    Castellano
    Gracias, pero no hace referencia a "subject to being ..."
     
  4. BrooklynBoy

    BrooklynBoy Senior Member

    English - Nueva York

    be subject to + noun (subject to remediation efforts)
    be subject to + gerund clause functioning as a noun (subject to being deemed rejected)
     
  5. Cheeky-Monkey Senior Member

    Spain
    Castellano
    Can you please give me more examples about when and how I can use this structure (be subject to + gerund clause functioning as a noun) ? Thnak you.
     
  6. BrooklynBoy

    BrooklynBoy Senior Member

    English - Nueva York
    The most common structure is "subject to [noun]". But you will also read or hear (although I'm not positive it is grammatically correct - perhaps someone else knows) "subject to [gerund]," often in frases that could have used a noun. Examples:

    She is subject to cavities in her teeth.
    She is subject to having cavities in her teeth.

    These students are subject to detention after school.
    These students are subject to enduring detention after school.

    Millions of infants in the Third World are subject to death from preventable diseases.
    Millions of infants in the Third World are subject to dying from preventable diseases.
     
  7. Cheeky-Monkey Senior Member

    Spain
    Castellano
    Thank you so much BrooklynBoy ! So both structures are used to say the same thing. ;-)
     
  8. Cheeky-Monkey Senior Member

    Spain
    Castellano
    Actually I think it must be good English because I got it from an official report... so I guess is correct.
     
  9. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    Shouldn't it be "this would suggest the pipe has been subjected to remediation efforts"?
     
  10. Cheeky-Monkey Senior Member

    Spain
    Castellano
    No, it shouldn't be. "to be subject to" is correct.
     
  11. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    I am referring to the fact that you used "..has been..." in your first post.

     
  12. BrooklynBoy

    BrooklynBoy Senior Member

    English - Nueva York
    has been subject to: the verb is "to be"; "subject" is a noun
    has been subjected to: the verb is "to subject"
     
  13. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    Cheeky Monkey, where was this official report from? It sounds like something that has been come out of Google translator! It's certainly not good English.
    I agree with Chileno. The first part should read;
    ".... the pipe has been subjected to repair" = ".... el tubo ha sido sometido a reparaciones"
    As for the second part, the only thing I think sounds natural is "...or has been rejected". "To be subject to" = "ser propenso a", doesn't make much sense here.
     
  14. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    Sorry, typo. "Has come out of google...."
     
  15. Peterdg

    Peterdg Senior Member

    Belgium
    Dutch - Belgium
    There is a difference between "'has been subjected to" and "has been subject to". Both are correct. The first one meaning that the pipe was actually repaired; the second one meaning that the pipe was a candidate for a repair, whether or not it was repaired after all... more or less. Look at the link in post #2.
     
  16. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    I've already looked at it but I can't see the meaning of it "being a candidate for" anywhere and it certainly doesn't make the bad English sound any better to me. Does it really sound good to you, Peter? Remediation efforts? Being deemed rejected? Certainly not in my neck of the woods!
     
  17. Peterdg

    Peterdg Senior Member

    Belgium
    Dutch - Belgium
    "Remediation efforts", yes that sounds good for a formal technical document.

    "Being deemed rejected"; I don't know. I should see it in some context.

    About "subject to": consider this: "this timetable is subject to change": doesn't this mean more or less: "this timetable is a candidate to be changed"? I know, there must be a more accurate way to describe it but my inspiration got lost somewhere today.
     
  18. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    Remediation is "the act of remedying something". You can't remedy a pipe. You repair it.
     
  19. Peterdg

    Peterdg Senior Member

    Belgium
    Dutch - Belgium
    It depends on what the context is of course, but in my opinion, you can "remedy a pipe"; if it is of poor quality, you can change the production process to improve the quality of the pipe so that it does not show the original defects. I agree the natural idea that comes up with a pipe is not to remedy it but to repair it, but I can imagine contexts in which it would be acceptable, certainly in formal technical documents.
     
  20. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    "Deem" means to judge or consider. You can "deem something useless" but you can't "deem something rejected". And "subject to" is "prone/ liable to" , not exactly the same as a candidate for.
     
  21. Peterdg

    Peterdg Senior Member

    Belgium
    Dutch - Belgium
    That's why I said: "...more or less". But anyway, "subjected to" is not the same as "subject to".

    About "to deem": as I said, I should see the complete context.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2013
  22. JennyTW Senior Member

    Córdoba, Spain
    English - UK
    Of course it's not the same. That was my whole point before. Anyway, I'm still waiting to find out exactly where this official document came from, because living in Spain I've seen many a dreadful official translation!
     
  23. SevenDays Senior Member

    Spanish
    In "has been subject to," subject is an adjective, and as adjective it describes a condition or state. In "has been subjected to," subjected is a participle, a verb, and as a verb, it expresses an action. While both are correct, the verb + preposition "subjected to" better shows that an action has been performed.
    Cheers
     
  24. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    Can you please translate that to Spanish (the phrase in red)

    Thank you.
     
  25. Peterdg

    Peterdg Senior Member

    Belgium
    Dutch - Belgium
    "sujeto a", " propenso a".
     
  26. SevenDays Senior Member

    Spanish
    Sí, como ha dicho Peterdg, y también "objeto de".
    Saludos
     
  27. chileno

    chileno Senior Member

    Las Vegas, Nv. USA
    Castellano - Chile
    Ya, gracias. Pero entonces se necesita más contexto, no?
     
  28. Cheeky-Monkey Senior Member

    Spain
    Castellano
    "sujeto a" ("propenso a" me suena mal.)
     
  29. SevenDays Senior Member

    Spanish
    Bueno, sí, más contexto siempre ayuda. Ahora bien "has been," como tiempo compuesto, se refiere a una acción pasada y perfecta (que guarda relación con el momento del habla), por lo que la diferencia entre "has been subject" y "has been subjected to" es más bien mínima (subjected to simplemente resalta el aspecto perfecto). Si nos referimos al futuro, la diferencia es más marcada: Decimos this contract is subject to final approval (pero no *this contract is subjected to final approval), precisamente porque "subjected to" se refiere a algo que ocurre o ha ocurrido.
    Saludos
     
  30. Cheeky-Monkey Senior Member

    Spain
    Castellano
    "subject to" es como decir "esta sujeto a" .... modificación, revisión.... y creo q se usa más con cosas o situaciones.

    y "subjected to" está sometido/obligado/forzado" y yo creo que se refiere más a personas.
     

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