1. maxikiosco Junior Member

    Sevilla, Spain
    English - UK
    Can anyone think of an English translation for sudaca? I have translated it as 'South American', but does sudaca not have more xenephobic, even racist, connotations?

    :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  2. JKL2008

    JKL2008 Senior Member

    Orlando(FL)/Madrid(Spain)
    Spain, spanish
    Of course "sudaca" has xenophobic notations.
    Better don't translate. Use South American.
     
  3. alexacohen

    alexacohen Senior Member

    Santiago de Compostela
    Spanish. Spain
    In Spain it very much depends.

    Many inmigrants from South America use the word to refer to themselves,

    When used by a stupid and ignorant person it does have xenophobic connatations, but, as far a I know, not racist.
     
  4. CarolMamkny

    CarolMamkny Senior Member

    New York, NY
    Colombia-Spanish NY-English
    "South American" is not the same as "Sudaca". I can think of "Spic", "Beaner","Wetback", even the use of names like "Juan", "Maria" or "Manuel" to refer to "us" here in the U.S. But I'm sure there are plenty of options- Saludos
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  5. alexacohen

    alexacohen Senior Member

    Santiago de Compostela
    Spanish. Spain
    What do you mean?

    It´s a translation, and translators should translate as accurately as possible whatever they´re paid to translate, without changing its meaning - even if the meaning is awful and racist.

    If someone paid me to translate "Mein Kampf" I would do it. But I would not omit or change anything. Because by hiding its disgusting racism and cruelty I would be, in fact, helping Hitler.
     
  6. BocaJuniors

    BocaJuniors Senior Member

    NASA Space Center, Mississippi, USA.
    Spanish & English (parejos y por añales)
    As far as I know, we, Central or South Americans, do not call ourselves "sudacas" or any other names beyond Central or South Americans.

    However, all my former college classmates and teachers from Spain (from various parts of the coutry I might add) were very and extremely clear to me and my other Central and South American classmates, that the word "sudaca" was derogatory, offensive and racist. This was confirmed by several of my cousins who attended post graduate studies in Madrid.

    Personally, I don't care whether "sudaca" is racist or not. However, I do agree with Alexacohen when she stated that a translator should translate as it is, racist or not. Translators, as she points out, should stick to the exact meaning.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  7. richiem Senior Member

    Peruvian Spanish
    Totally agree with alexacohen in using that word if it was meant to be there for a reason.

    And it's a word that it's not in use in US for the simple reason that the majority of Latin migrants are Mexicans or Central Americans. On the other hand if a Spaniard call me sudaca, I'd consider it offensive because all the xenophobic connotation it has, although I might tolerate it from a fellow South American. Same double moral that the N word has unfortunately.
     
  8. maxikiosco Junior Member

    Sevilla, Spain
    English - UK
    Thanks everyone! I would leave it in the original Spanish and add a footnote but it's for an oral interpreting exercise. Thanks for the suggestions CarolMamkny, but this example is Spanish people being derogatory towards South Americans, and I think your suggestions are more ethnic slurs used agains Hispanics in general. Maybe I would be better off leaving it as 'South American', hmmmmmm :confused:?
     
  9. didakticos

    didakticos Senior Member

    St. Petersburg, FL, USA
    Español de Costa Rica (y de otras partes también)
    But so far, we haven't helped maxikiosco with his/her translation. WR Dictionary says South American, but we agree that is not the same. It would be better for he/she to keep the word without translating it, and make a footnote instead?

    I found the word in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudaca
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  10. alexacohen

    alexacohen Senior Member

    Santiago de Compostela
    Spanish. Spain
    It is. But it is true, too, that many South American people choose to refer to themselves as "sudacas", at least here.
    If my Uruguayan workmate describes herself as "sudaca", it´s because she feels proud of what she is.
    Were I to use it, it would be indeed derogatory.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2008
  11. aztlaniano

    aztlaniano Senior Member

    Lavapiestán, Madrid
    English (Aztlán, US sector)
    I've been told (in Spain) that "sudaca" comes from "sud", obviously, and "acá" (over here). Also, the word "acá" is used more by Latin Americans than it is by many Spaniards. Whether it is pejorative or not depends on the person using it, I would say. Nevertheless, I would avoid it. Anyway, it makes sense only in Spain.
    saludos
     
  12. Metzaka

    Metzaka Senior Member

    Oz
    "Mexican Spanish"
    Coudn't agree more. But when words dont have a precise translation/adaptation, it is probably better to leave them in the original language and use a footnote, as suggested by didaktikos.
    Saludos.
     
  13. andylopez

    andylopez Senior Member

    Madrid, Spain
    Spanish - Castellano

    I will answer to you with another question (a typical behaviour of some Spaniards ;), not necessarily myself, but anyway):

    How would you translate into English the term cachupín?

    As you know, we (the Spaniards) are known in South America as cachupines (or gachupines), a word as despective/xenophobic and/or racist as sudaca may seem here referred to South American people. In my opinion, nowadays both are less offensive than they were in the past, and are used even in friendly, colloquial conversations.

    So coming to my question, I'd simply translate cachupines as Spaniards.


    And applying the same logic, I'd simply translate sudaca as South American.




    Another story is to try to explain if it's considered despective / xenophobic / racist, but for the purpose of a pure translation you don't need to.




    Regards
     
  14. todasana

    todasana Senior Member

    Spain
    Spanish - Spain
    El "titulo" de gallego es usado para denominar a los españoles puesto que los primeros emigrantes salidos de España en su mayoría eran gallegos y cuando se les preguntaba de dónde eran, ellos se denominaban gallegos, ergo, se empezó a generalizar para los españoles el uso de ese gentilicio. Generalmente se toma a los gallegos por brutos (no es mi concepto, pero es muy generalizado).

    Pero el apelativo "sudaca" es bastante peyorativo, comenzó a utilizarse cuando el movimiento migratorio se fortaleció en sentido inverso, es decir, sudamericanos que venían a España e indudablemente eran personas dispuestas a hacer cualquier trabajo por poco dinero.

    Habiendo vivido a ambos lados del océano Atlántico, considero igual de despectivo el utilizar gallego o sudaca para identificar a unos u otros. No creo que sea suceptible de tradución (literal) cualesquiera de estos términos con el mismo sentido que se les da en español.
     
  15. didakticos

    didakticos Senior Member

    St. Petersburg, FL, USA
    Español de Costa Rica (y de otras partes también)
    La primera vez que escuché el término sudaca fue en una canción que Pablo Milanés y Joaquín Sabina cantaban a dúo. Aunque no conocía el significado del término, el contexto me lo dejó bien claro.

    y, si dos vascos atracan
    a un farmacéutico en Vigo
    jura el testigo que eran sudacas.

    (De La casa por la ventana: http://www.joaquinsabina.net/2005/11/01/la-casa-por-la-ventana/).

    ¿Puede este término ser más peyorativo?

    Con respecto al término gachupín, no lo usamos en mi país para referirnos a los españoles, pero Angeles Mastretta (México) lo utiliza mucho en sus escritos.
     
  16. Cabeza tuna

    Cabeza tuna Senior Member

    Santiago, Chile
    Chilean Spanish & Chilean Coa
    Ocurre algo parecido con la palabra nigger, traducir el odio que esa palabra lleva al español no es fácil ocurre similar con sudaca y el ingles.
     
  17. alexacohen

    alexacohen Senior Member

    Santiago de Compostela
    Spanish. Spain
    No puedes usar esa estrofa como guía, no es tan claro como tú crees.

    Ninguna persona atracada a punta de pistola por un par de vascos encapuchados los acusaría jamás. Tendría demasiado miedo. Son vascos, tienen armas. Podrían pertenecer a una banda terrorista bastante letal.
    Sería mucho más seguro identificarlos como "sudacas". Los inmigrantes pobres no tienen, normalmente, una organización detrás que busque venganza.

    Yo dejaría la palabra tal y como está en español, y explicaría lo que es con una nota a pie de página.
     
  18. Cabeza tuna

    Cabeza tuna Senior Member

    Santiago, Chile
    Chilean Spanish & Chilean Coa
    No entiendo, ¿Se refiere a que aunque sabe que son vascos lo hace para causarle conflictos a los sudacas, o para evitar meterse en problemas con los etarras?
     
  19. alexacohen

    alexacohen Senior Member

    Santiago de Compostela
    Spanish. Spain
    Por lo segundo, naturalmente. Pero lo que quiero decir es que no se puede tomar una canción para entender el sentido de una palabra.
     
  20. dame50 Senior Member

    Chile - Español, Deutsch, English
    hata el momento son las únicas propuestas que aportan algo, pero en general, según mi expreciencia, se refiere a latinos en general y no en particular a sudamericanos (sudacas).

    Y para mi es una palabra peyorativa, y cuando viví en Canadá, si alguien usaba esa palabra era motivo de problemas.
    Saludos
    Dm50
     
  21. Cabeza tuna

    Cabeza tuna Senior Member

    Santiago, Chile
    Chilean Spanish & Chilean Coa

    Lo comprendo pero me había quedado la duda.
    Me acorde de que en USA se instalaron unas señaléticas que tenían por imagen a una familia de inmigrantes corriendo se hicieron bastante populares y ahora son un icono bastante pop, estas tenían un nombre es mas el símbolo tenia un nombre que lamentablemente no recuerdo (nuevamente el tener acceso tan limitado a Internet me complica), pienso que ese termino podría ser ocupado, lamento lo ambiguo.
     
  22. L4ut4r0 Senior Member

    Chile, castellano/español
    Hasta donde entiendo, la palabra Sudamérica en España incluye México y Centroamérica.

    Sudamerica desde Usuaia hasta Mexico DF


    Con sudaca es parecido. El DRAE dice
    1.
    adj. despect. coloq. Esp. suramericano. Apl. a pers., u. t. c. s.

    Esto es ambiguo,porque suramericano es
    1. adj. Natural de Suramérica o América del Sur. U. t. c. s.

    En cambio el Diccionario de Uso del Español de María Moliner no deja lugar a dudas:
    sudaca (desp.) adj. y n. Hispanoamericano.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2008
  23. dame50 Senior Member

    Chile - Español, Deutsch, English
    Puede que me equivoque, pero me parece un error ampliar el uso de la palabra exclusaivamente por el uso que se le da en España. Si el objetivo de la traducción son españoles, tal vez se pueda usar. De otro modo me parece que es necesario buscar otra palabra
     
  24. £20 New Member

    Spanish-Spain
    Yes, it has bad connotations associated. If you are translating documents in a legal case might be very important that you emphasize that. When translating text you can leave in italics and make a translation reference with explanations. It may be especially xenofobic if comes from a Spanish addressing a South American. It is racist in the case of a Spanish addressing
    another Spanish with South American origins. It may loose the racist-xenophobic conntotation and become more like street jargon between South Americans living in Spain nevertheless still rude.
     
  25. matias_l Senior Member

    Buenos Aires
    Spanish - Argentina
    imagínense los usos peyorativos que tiene, especialmente si aquí en Argentina a veces se bromea diciendo que la palabra sudaca proviene de "sudamericano cagón"
    Pero bueno, concuerdo con lo expuesto por varios, con lo de las diferencias de connotación según quién lo diga, dónde lo diga y a quién se esté dirigiendo. (al igual que "nigger","negro", "boliviano", "judío", etc.)
    En la construcción de identidades parece que no hay categorías unívocas...
    saludos
    matías
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2009
  26. El intérprete Senior Member

    US
    US English
    I'm sorry if I overlooked a post or two, but I think the term "sudaca" has to be translated in some way or explained. You can't simply say "South American" because that label has no negative connotation. Dame50's suggestions sound good to me:
    Spic (offensive)
    Beaner (This word just sounds stupid to me, and like something a Mexican-American comedian would say.)
    Wetback (offensive)

    I'd also add,
    Damn Mexican (This can be used to refer to anyone who speaks Spanish. It is definitely not limited to Mexicans, which is why the term is offensive.)

    But I've never heard a Spaniard use the word "sudaca". I didn't even know the word existed until I came to Chile.
     
  27. Quillaray Senior Member

    Berkeley, California
    English, USA - Español, Chile
    My vote is for 'spic'.


    It's a tough call b/c you are translating a Spanish term into English - from one language to another - but you can't translate the cultural connotations that come with the term in this case w/o a footnote. Why? Because in most English speaking countries, the majority of people don't differentiate between a person from Central America, South America, Caribbean Islands, or even Spain!

    Witness the common use of the adjective Spanish: "I like Spanish people." When uttered here in the US, that could mean anyone from a Salvadoreño to a Brazilian to, indeed, a Spaniard. Ignorance, but there it is.

    Given this, and given that you are performing an interpretation exercise and can't include footnotes or qualify the term in any way, 'spic' seems like the best catchall, offensive term to me.
     
  28. caitoxose New Member

    Castillian
    Nonsense. Sudaca is simply an abbreviated form of "Sudamericano/a" although it would be equally applied to people from Central or South America and it has a pejorative tone. However it's not the worse adjectif used in reference to people from Central and South America. "Acá" is used by people from that part of the world, Spaniards very rarely use it although you may hear it in the South of Spain as in "Vente p'acá chiquilla!" an extremely coloquial way of saying "Come here little girl!" Please note that the "little girl" could well be in her nineties and still be adressed as "Chiquilla". As I said, extremely coloquial.
     

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