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Tanto...quanto

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by moodywop, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. moodywop Banned

    Southern Italy
    Italian - Italy
    An English friend asked me to help him practise this construction with nouns. The examples he wanted me to translate tripped me up:

    I have as much money as you

    We have as many CDs as them

    A highly respected grammar book(written by an Italian professor of Linguistics) states that "quanto" should agree with the preceding noun, the only example provided being "Non ho tanti libri quanti mio fratello". But try replacing "mio fratello" with "lui". Am I right in thinking that it doesn't sound right unless "ne ha" is inserted - "quanti ne ha lui"?

    And his final example - "I'm as hungry as you" - doesn't sound right to me in Italian unless I break the rule: "Ho fame quanto te". Surely the professor(G. Lepschy, from Venice) doesn't expect us to say "quanta"!?

    Any suggestions?

    Carlo
     
  2. Alfry

    Alfry Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    the only way I know to make them sound better is to add "ne" and the same verb I used before

    also, tanto and quando must agree in gender and number
     
  3. moodywop Banned

    Southern Italy
    Italian - Italy
    Thanks Alfry. I agree 100%. But do you think ho fame quanto te is wrong? Maybe in this sentence quanto is a sort of preposition, therefore invariable, meaning as much as, as in lavoro quanto te, se non di più.
     
  4. Alfry

    Alfry Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    ho fame (tanto) quanto te... sembra sia usato come un pronome indefinito :)
    son troppo stanco adesso per pensarci intensamente. :)
     
  5. Silvia

    Silvia Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    Ciao Carlo, quanto non è una preposizione, ma può assumere valore diverso all'interno della frase.

    Trattandosi di correlativa, c'è ovviamente accordo tra i il tanto e il quanto. Perché non dovresti usare la particella pronominale ne?

    Magari cercherò qualcosa di specifico, per dissipare i tuoi dubbi.
     
  6. Isotta

    Isotta Senior Member

    France
    English, Hodgepodge
    I might mention that the theoretically correct English form would be "We have as many CDs as they [have]," though this is so rarely observed that it may formally (and finally) fall off the turnip truck before long.

    Another example--"I am as tall as she [is tall]."

    Thus perhaps the translation difficulty lay in the English vulgarism.

    Z.
     
  7. Anna Mary Senior Member

    Croatia
    croatia,croatian
    ragazzi di nuovoho bisogno che mi correggete una frase.


    In parole semplici,quanto per alcuni bambini può essere dannosa la troppa espressione di compassione e di compressione, tanto possa essere dannosa quella poca.
    grazie
    Anna
     
  8. Dust! Junior Member

    Italy
    Ciao, io credo che in questo caso tu non debba usare tanto/quanto:

    In parole semplici, per alcuni bambini può essere dannosa sia la troppa espressione di comprensione e compassione sia la poca espressione di queste.
     
  9. Dust! Junior Member

    Italy
    od anche cosi:

    In parole semplici, tanto quanto la troppa espressione di compassione e comprensione può in alcuni bambini essere dannosa, cosi pure la poca espressione di queste.
     
  10. silvietta

    silvietta Senior Member

    Lecce
    Italy-italian
    Ciao Anna, ormai sono come il prezzemolo!!:)

    In parole semplici, per alcuni bambini può essere dannoso che venga loro espressa troppa comprensione e compassione tanto quanto che venga espressa loro poco.
    Let me know
    Silvia
     
  11. djinne New Member

    English USA
    Hello,

    I have read the other threads regarding the use of "tanto... quanto," but have an additional question. Can this construction be used with adjectives? For example, to say "He was as intelligent as he was handsome" does "Era tanto intelligente quanto bello" work? And would it work with feminine adjectives as well? Or is there some simpler construction with "come" that can be used?

    Many thanks!
     
  12. irene.acler Senior Member

    Trento - Italy
    Italiano
    Yes, your expression works, and you can use it also with feminine adjectives (Era tanto simpatica quanto carina). You could also use other constructions:
    Era sia simpatica che carina.
    Era simpatica e carina allo stesso tempo.

    At the moment I need to think if I can find an expression with "come"..It doesn't come to my mind!
     
  13. flop

    flop Senior Member

    italian/Italy
    it definitely works, and it can be used with feminine adjectives as well: 'È tanto bella quanto orgogliosa".
    :) flop
     
  14. djinne New Member

    English USA
    Great! Thank you both very much!
     
  15. FL0 Junior Member

    Italy
    Italy
    "Preparare tanti caffè quanti sono gli ospiti".

    Please, may you tell me how translate this?...

    Thanx!!!
    Flo ;o)))
     
  16. pane13 Senior Member

    english/united states
    I think it is:

    Prepare as much coffee as there are guests.

    hope it helps
     
  17. FL0 Junior Member

    Italy
    Italy
    Thank you very much Pane!!! ;o))))
     
  18. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    Guests are counted by number, while coffee, being uncountable, is measured by volume, which doesn't make much sense whne you say "as much coffee as there are guests". Here I'd use the plural, as in Italian: as many coffees (= cups of coffee).
     
  19. FL0 Junior Member

    Italy
    Italy
    Ein... You are right!!!

    Thank you!
    Fl0 ;o***
     
  20. angelico76 Senior Member

    Italy, italian
    Hello,
    in Italian we can say "la benzina rimasta e' tanta quanta" oppure "il latte in frigo e' tanto quanto" to express the fact that it's just enough (not more than what we need). This is used in colloquial Italian.
    Well, is there an equivalent way to convey this in English?

    Un grazie anticipato a tutti!
     
  21. MünchnerFax

    MünchnerFax Senior Member

    Germany
    Italian, Italy
    :confused: It must be regional. I've never heard this expression, and I also have some problems in understanding it...
    Cosa vuol dire? Appena sufficiente? Non si finisce mai di imparare! :eek:
     
  22. Saoul

    Saoul Senior Member

    Milan
    Italian
    Io non ho mai sentito usare quest'espressione in italiano a dire il vero.
    Credo sia comune dire "La benzina rimasta è quanto basta", oppure "di latte in frigo ce n'è quanto basta".

    Non so se ci siano espressioni più comuni, questo lo diranno i Nativi, ma io direi:

    The milk in the fridge is enough.
    We've got enough gasoline.

    Che ne dici? :)

    EDIT: MF ci siamo incrociati sulla stessa perplessità! :)
     
  23. MünchnerFax

    MünchnerFax Senior Member

    Germany
    Italian, Italy
    Magari ci metterei anche un just:
    There's just enough milk.

    (In italiano mi viene in mente giusto giusto.)
     
  24. Saoul

    Saoul Senior Member

    Milan
    Italian
    Quite right! Con il just, l'idea è che basti appena appena per l'uso che ne dobbiamo fare... (berlo per quanto riguarda il latte, e arrivare al primo benzinaio per la benzina... e non viceversa). :)
     
  25. angelico76 Senior Member

    Italy, italian
    Ciao,
    nel Lazio si usa parecchio. In generale se dico "me ne e' rimasto tanto quanto" voglio dire che, di quella particolare cosa, ne ho un quantitativo sufficiente, magari per una persona, magari per una dose, magari per un singola volta, e non piu'.
    Se dico "il latte nel frigo e' abbastanza" significa che...e' abbastanza...quindi puo' essere usato da tutte le persone cui mi sto rivolgendo e...alla fine....magari un po' rimane pure. Invece se dico "tanto quanto" escludo la possibilita' che alla fine ne rimanga un po'.....

    Io pensavo fosse usato da tutti in Italia...:)

    Ecco, ho appena notato che un'altra espressione e' "giusto giusto"...mi era sfuggita.....
     
  26. Saoul

    Saoul Senior Member

    Milan
    Italian
    In Lombardia non l'ho mai sentito dire. Credo che MF abbia ragione nel definirlo un uso regionale, visto che poi l'uso "standard" di questa espressione è solitamente molto diversa.

    Di latte ne è avanzato tanto quanto ne è avanzato settimana scorsa.

    Questo può voler dire che ne sono avanzati 26 ettolitri, o mezzo litro scarso, senza una vera quantificazione.
     
  27. yuhan Junior Member

    italy
    italy
    Ciao!
    neanche io - dall'Abruzzo - non ho mai sentito questo modo di dire.

    In inglese si potrebbe dire: "it's a little, just for me"

    Bye!
     
  28. togal22 New Member

    Canada
    Tanto.... quanto agree with two objects belonging to one subjec But when there's two subjects and one object, do both tanto.... quanto
    still agree?

    Ha tanti soldi ? me.
    Conosce tante ragazze ? suo fratello.
    Ha girato tanti film ? DeSica.
    Paola ha ricevuto tanti regali ? Anna.
    Ho fame ? te.
     
  29. Necsus

    Necsus Senior Member

    Formello (Rome)
    Italian (Italy)
    It's not a problem of subject, you simply have two clauses, question and answer... See these examples from Hazon:
    ho tanto denaro quanto lui, I have as much money as he has;
    non ho tanto lavoro quanto ne hai tu, I haven't got so (o as) much work to do as you;
    a noi spettano tanti giorni di ferie quanti (ne spettano) a loro, we get as many days off as they do;
    non ci sono tanti turisti quanti (ce n'erano) lo scorso anno, there aren't as (o so) many tourists as there were last year;
    occorrono tanti moduli quanti sono i candidati, as many forms are needed as the number of candidates
     
  30. giovannino

    giovannino Senior Member

    Italy
    Italian
    I think togal22's examples are not questions and answers but statements. He used a question mark to indicate that he didn't know which form of "quanto" to use there:


    Ha tanti soldi quanti ne ho io
    Conosce tante ragazze quante ne conosce suo fratello.
    Ha girato tanti film quanti ne ha girati De Sica.
    Paola ha ricevuto tanti regali quanti ne ha ricevuti Anna.
    Ho tanta fame quanta ne hai tu/Ho fame quanto te

    I must say I prefer to repeat the verb after quanto/a/i/e in these sentences.
     
  31. Necsus

    Necsus Senior Member

    Formello (Rome)
    Italian (Italy)
    Ah, yes, maybe you're right, giovannino, and I misunderstood. Well, so it's even easier. :)
     
  32. Ariel66 Senior Member

    Italian
    Prepara tanti caffe' quanti sono gli ospiti

    Is that correct to say:
    Prepare as many coffees for as many guests. (as there are guests didn't sound well to me)


    I have another question:
    Cosi come......frase, frase ( paragone tra due azioni)

    As I love cakes, he loves smoking. (is it correct?)
     
  33. Einstein

    Einstein Senior Member

    Milano, Italia
    UK, English
    Prepare as many coffees as there are guests is fine. Of course there are simpler ways to say it, for example Everyone wants coffee,:D but there's nothing wrong with that sentence.
    If you say Prepare as many coffees for as many guests, it means Prepara altrettanti caffè per altrettanti ospiti. Does that make sense?

    The last sentence is correct; you could add "so": As I love cakes, so he loves smoking; it sounds more formal. You can say He loves smoking as much as I love cakes if you really want to make a quantitative comparison.

    A difference that I've had to explain to Italians is the following:
    Mr Brown is old, like Mr Smith. This means that they are both old, but not necessarily the same age.
    Mr Brown is as old as Mr Smith. This means that they are the same age.
     
  34. Giorgio Spizzi Senior Member

    Italian
    Scusa, Angelico, nell' italiano di dove?
    Con simpatia.
    GS
     

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