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"Tej", gwara Poznańska

Discussion in 'Polski (Polish)' started by dreamlike, Sep 29, 2012.

  1. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Od niedawna mieszkam w Poznaniu i zdążyłem trochę poznać tutejszą gwarę. Najbardziej zainteresowało mnie wtrącane, zazwyczaj na koniec zdania, słowo "tej". Jest to jak pewnie wiecie forma zwracania się do drugiej osoby.

    "No co robisz, tej?" ("tej" bardzo zaciągane)
    "Gdzie idziesz, tej?" ("tej" bardzo zaciągane)

    Przyznam, że wydaje mi się to trochę pretensjonalne i niegrzeczne, jakby nasz rozmówca się na nas obrażał. Oczywiście Poznaniakom weszło to po prostu w nawyk, i nic takiego nie mają na myśli, chyba że kontekst wskazuje inaczej. Pomimo tego, że zdaję sobie z tego sprawę, cały czas odnoszę takie wrażenie.

    A Wy co o tym sądzicie? :)
     
  2. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Co to ma znaczyć -- ty (you), or tyj (tea)? Co robisz, ty? Tak? (w gwarze)
     
  3. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Tak, to znaczy tyle co "ty", chociaż może przybiera też inne znaczenia.
    Umieszczają to najczęściej na końcu zdania, i jak to usłyszałem pierwszy raz to nie miało dla mnie zupełnie sensu.
     
  4. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    They have something like that in Silesia, but usually at the beginning of the sentence. "Te, pódź sam.", Te, co tam robiysz? It must be the same usage although, a different pronunciation. (come here, what are you doing there).
     
  5. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    I'd be more inclined to think that "Te" and "Tej" are two distinct words that may mean the same thing.
     
  6. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Ok. Whatever you want. They both mean "you".
     
  7. BezierCurve Senior Member

  8. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    A czy ktoś z Poznania (chyba ktoś jest na forum) mógłby rzucić trochę światła na to w jakich kontekstach najczęściej jest to używane?
    Czy wyraża zdenerwowanie?
     
  9. Thawt

    Thawt Junior Member

    Polish
    nie oznacza samo w sobie zdenerwowania to po prostu zawołanie coś jak Oi Mate in BE ale rzeczywiście raczej bywa używane kiedy komuś sie zwraca na coś uwagę, np. tej co ty tam robisz
     
  10. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Hi. Is it full tej, or just more like te (bordering on y -- it is really hard to describe it).
     
  11. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    No, it's simply "tej", althogh they say it in a rather distinctive way. If you haven't heard of it, it's no wonder - it's rather a recent thing.
     
  12. ryba

    ryba Senior Member

    Hi.
    It may be new to you, but it does not mean it's a recent thing. ;) I'd say its use covers (at least part of) the semantic areas of (General Polish) hej and ej (the latter being typical of the conversational language of shoolkids, at least in my part of Wielkopolska: Turek). It does not intrinsically convey irritation or impatience, why would it? It obviously can, as in :warning: "O chuj ci chodzi, tej?" (the verb getting the prosodic stress, a stress pattern typical of questions in big part of Wielkopolska), depending on the context, but its basic role is emphatic and phatic.
     
  13. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Hi Ryba, thanks for your insight.

    I might have gone a tad too far saying that it's a recent thing (but at the sime time I think there's no telling as to how far does it actually date back). I've been living in Poznań long enough to know that it doesn't not necessarily convey irritation with the speaker, but that was simply the first impression I got. There was no need for you to quote Wikipedia, I'm perfectly familiar with the defitinition of phatic expression. ;)
     
  14. wolfbm1 Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    It's the first time I've heard about the word "tej" and it's emphatic use in Poznań. Wikisłownik says that it is a form of "ty". http://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/tej
     
  15. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    I don't think so. I would agree that it is the same as Te (you) in Silesian that has nothing to do with hej and ej. Poznanian dialect and Silesian have a lot in common. Hey you, sort of. (contracted to you) The repetition of you may be an influence from Germanic languages -- I am pretty sure something similar is done in some Germanic languages. It migtht be worth investigating.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  16. ryba

    ryba Senior Member

    You don't think what? In no place did I challenge any previous statement on the word's etymology and its congnate status with regard to the Silesian te. I can even add that I've heard the final -j in tej is just the effect of an adjustment of an original [te:] (which is said to be still alive in certain areas around Poznań) to the General Polish rules of pronunciation. I only referred to semantics and pragmatics. Note that the original question was about use rather than etymology.
     
  17. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    It does not come from hej or ej. This was my first impression -- that this was what you were claiming. Ok. Then you just believe that the j is a result of the adjustment to some Polish expressions similar to "hej" and"ej" Possible.
     
  18. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    But not all the readers do.
     
  19. Ben Jamin Senior Member

    Norway
    Polish
    How do you know the origin? Any sources?
     
  20. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Please, would you mind stop derailing my thread? As Ryba has rightly pointed out, my question aimed at finding more about the use of the word, not its etymology, which is of completely no interest to me -- and I don't want it to lead to yet another heated discussion on this forum....
     
  21. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    Professional intuition. Unfortunately there are not too many dictionaries related to Silesian, and some other dialects.I wish there were, so everything could be scientifically proven; unless you know of any (related to Silesian and the Poznanian dialect).

    We can continue the dictionary discussion in a different thread -- not to derail Dreamlike's discussion.
     
  22. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Going back to the topic -- in my experience, "tej" is very likely, but not not limited to:warn:, to be used by low-lifes.
    Every other time I'm strolling around Poznań, smoking a cigarette, some dodgy people tend to ask me "Tej, masz ćmika?" -- "Hey you, do you have a cigarette?".

    Also, it might prove extremely difficult for a person who normally lives outside Poznań to pronounce it - they utter it in a very distinctive way. I've been told by Poznaniaks that it sounds funny coming from someone from outside Poznań, someone trying hard to mimic them :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2012
  23. marco_2 Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    It's because of their rising-falling intonation at the end of almost every sentence. And, according to the book Mowa mieszkańców Poznania by M.Gruchmanowa, M.Witaszek-Samborska and M.Żak-Święcicka /.../ Częstą formą jest także tej, czyli ogólnopolskie ty, używane w funkcji wołacza. Przyczyną tej cechy jest wielkopolska właściwość, polegająca na dodawaniu j do samogłoski y, na przykład: małyj, białyj, dołyj, trawyj (mały, biały, doły, trawy)." I have to add that the form te was /is widespread not only in Silesia, but also in Central Poland, e.g. in Warsaw (Te, koleś!) in pre-war times.
     
  24. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Yes, that would probably account for it.
    It might have made its way to the Polish language then, but I think it's alive up until this day, althouth most of the people would most likely say "Ej!".
     
  25. vatrelin New Member

    Polish
    Well it's not like that. I live in Silesia and we don't talk to each other "te,...." becouse it's very rude and unpleasant. Of course there are people who say that, but ... you don't want to talk with these people ;) I heard so many times this answer when someone say "te" - "na TE na tramwaj staje".
     
  26. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    We tend to say the same thing here where I (normally) live, in Lublin voivodeship :)
     
  27. vatrelin New Member

    Polish
    A może drodzy Rodacy porozmawiamy tutaj po polsku? Nie żeby tytuł do czegoś zobowiązywał ;P podejrzewam, że sporo osób uczących się polskiego chętnie poczyta nasze komentarze w oryginalnym wydaniu.
     
  28. dreamlike

    dreamlike Senior Member

    Poland
    Polish
    Jak najbardziej. Podejrzewam tylko, że temat został wyczerpany :D
     

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