The اسم مفعول of a فعل لازم when it is a تابع

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by Abu Talha, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. Abu Talha Senior Member

    Urdu
    Hello,

    As far as I know, an intransitive verb (فعل لازم)'s passive participle (اسم مفعول) must contain a حرف جر or a ظرف.

    For example, "something disgusting" is مُشمأَزٌّ منه not just مشمأز. I'm trying to find the grammar rule that allows مشمأز منه to be an appositive adjective (تابع), such that it will take the إعراب of the متبوع and may carry the definite article. I know that it is frequently an appositive adjective but I can't help thinking that there needs to be a specific rule to allow this. It does not seem like the simple case of the اسم مفعول of a transitive verb because مشمأز , by itself, is not "disgusting".

    I wasn't able to find such a rule on some of the grammar websites or in any of my grammar books. Is anyone familiar with a reference? Or is there nothing out of the ordinary in this اسم مفعول and الشيءُ المشمأَزُّ منه is no different than الشيءُ المكروهُ grammatically?

    Thanks.
     
  2. barkoosh Senior Member

    Beirut
    Arabic
    It's too obvious to require a written rule :)

    Check how it's incontestably used in the following:
    You know that we say اشترك في and أذن له but we commonly say مشترك (not مشترك فيه) and مأذون (not مأذون له). Those two exceptions are approved for being so common and used. One of the Arabic Academy resolutions reads:
    Accordingly, nothing is out of the ordinary in الشيءُ المشمأَزُّ منه
     
  3. Abu Talha Senior Member

    Urdu
    Thanks very much Barkoosh for your very helpful reply. I would also like to confirm, if I may, that if the منعوت is منصوب or مجرور , the اسم مفعول will also be so? For example,

    رأيت شيــئًا مشمأزًّا منه.

    But if the اسم مفعول is replaced with the فعل مجهول then it is always مرفوع , e.g.,

    رأيت شيــئًا يُشْمَأزُّ منه.
     
  4. barkoosh Senior Member

    Beirut
    Arabic
    Yes and yes
     
  5. Abu Talha Senior Member

    Urdu
    If such an اسم مفعول becomes a noun (as opposed to an adjective), how is its dual formed?

    For example "مفعول به" means "object". How would you say, "This verb has two objects"?

    لهذا الفعل مفعولٌ بهما.
    لهذا الفعل مفعولان بهما.
    لهذا الفعل مفعولان.


    The third one seems like the one I see most. But isn't there the rule that in such cases the مفعول remains singular while the pronoun following it is adjusted to number and gender? For example:

    رأيت شيئَين مشمأزًا منهما.
    not
    رأيت شيئين مشمأزَين منهما.

    Thanks.
     
  6. barkoosh Senior Member

    Beirut
    Arabic
    Regarding مفعول به it's common in grammar to say مفعولان. For example: الفعل... يتعدّى إلى مفعولين.

    When the حرف الجر is mentioned, the feminine/dual/plural form appears with it.
    هو مشتبه به
    هي مشتبه بها
    هما مشتبه بهما
    هم مشتبه بهم
    هن مشتبه بهن

    Compare:
    أمر مشترك فيه - أمران مشترك فيهما - أمور مشترك فيها
    أمر مشترك - أمران مشتركان - أمور مشتركة
     
  7. Abu Talha Senior Member

    Urdu
    Thanks Barkoosh. Just to be clear, are you free to use the حرف الجر or not as you please? Or are you only allowed to drop it for only certain passive participles like مشترك , مأذون and مفعول ?

    For example, which of these are correct?
    هما مشتبه بهما. ورأيت ذينك المشتبهَ بهما ذات يوم.
    هما مشتبه بهما. ورأيت ذينك المشتبَهين ذات يوم.
     
  8. barkoosh Senior Member

    Beirut
    Arabic
    Yes you may drop the حرف الجر in MSA the way you said. But I can't say that you can do this automatically. If it looks awkward in certain cases, don't do it.
     
  9. Abu Talha Senior Member

    Urdu
    I apologize for being importunate, but could I ask if you mentioned MSA because Classical Arabic is more strict regarding dropping the حرف الجر?
    Again, sorry to press, but which of the following two would you say is least awkward?
    And thanks very much for your help and explanations.
     
  10. barkoosh Senior Member

    Beirut
    Arabic
    المشتبه بهما and المشتبهَين (with المشتبه بهم and المشتبهون/المشتبهِين) are both commonly used.
     
  11. Abu Talha Senior Member

    Urdu
    Thanks very much.
     
  12. ِArabicPoet New Member

    Arabic
    Hi,
    هما مشتبه بهما. ورأيت ذينك المشتبهَ بهما ذات يوم is the correct.

    You can drop حرف الجر in very few cases depending on the linguistic sense, but the rule is to mention حرف الجر. You can't drop حرف الجر in all cases, e.g. when I say: عدلتُ عن هذا الأمر إلى غيره, I can't say: هذا الأمرُ معدولٌ إلى غيره. Here you must mention حرف الجر and say: هذا الأمر معدولٌ عنه إلى غيره.

    Barkoosh gave you very good answers. I think he meant I said above when he said:
    "
    If it looks awkward in certain cases, don't do it."

    Best wishes.
     
  13. Abu Talha Senior Member

    Urdu
    Thank you Arabic Poet.
     

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