The to and the Imperative

Discussion in 'Lingua Latina (Latin)' started by SunnRise, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. SunnRise New Member

    a Q: Is it possible to drop the "-o" from the 3rd person Sing. + Imperative? e.g "amat" instead of "amato" (or any other verb).
  2. stevelogan Junior Member

    Sorry, may you rephrase ? amatus (est) ([you are] loved) is an other form and tempo and modus... it is different from the imperative ama (You love), so I don't get the bad.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  3. SunnRise New Member

    Excuse me, I know that amato: is not Passive! to say ([you are] loved), the passive is amor. amat: is not Imperative! it's Indicative. means: you love, you do love, you are loving. Am I mistaken? correct me please. thank you, Stev.
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2012
  4. CapnPrep Senior Member

    Like stevelogan, I'm not really sure what your question is. Are you asking about how to form the singular future imperative? For regular verbs, yes, you can add to the 3rd sing. pres. ind. form (-ōr for the passive), remembering to restore the long vowel in the 1st, 2nd, and 4th conjugations:
    1. amăt → amā
    2. vidĕt → vidē
    3. capĭt → capĭtō [note stress placement]
    4. audĭt → audī
  5. stevelogan Junior Member

    Maybe it could be far more comprehensible with an example...?

    I found these:

    - "Alcibiades, ineunte adulescentia, amatus est a multis", it uses "love" in passive form.
    - "Cognitum est proprie in cognoscete, amans in amato".
    This is middle age latin, and amato means "the person you love", it is a noun...
    - "Lucius hanc puellam quae canem habuit amat". Lucius loves that girl which...3rd person indicative present...

    Then there are the imperative forms of amare, this modus is "defective" does not use all the persons, but express more than the imperative form of many modern european Languages because it has the 2nd and 3d singular and plural person at present and future.

    ama (tu), love thou
    amet (ille), let him love
    amate (vos): you do love (plural)
    ament (illi): they do love (plural)

    amato (tu), you will love.
    amato (ille), he will love.
    amatote (vos), you (plural) will love
    amanto (illi), they will love

    amato is 2nd and 3rd future imperative

    So what exactly means "to drop -o".... ?
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2012
  6. SunnRise New Member

    sorry, I made a mistake, amat: stands for: he instead of "you".
  7. SunnRise New Member

    yes. but I ask if it's possible to add NOT "o".
    maybe this is much more to my point. however I don't know how did you form this "amet". Is there a 3rd present Imperative? it's true that(amato is 2nd and 3rd future imperative) , but can any one write it (amat) without "o" for the 3rd future Imp.?
  8. stevelogan Junior Member

    Mmmm no, as far as I know. The infinitive form of verb is in -are, it is regular, this is its declension, and the 3rd future imperative is "amato".
    You can say "ames", or "amet" (with the E and not the A) in the subjunctive form (2nd 3rd present) with exhortative purpose.
    For example like in, qui me amat, amet et canem meum (who loves me, must love my dog too)

    This is a way to express the imperative, but in form of an exhortation , and in grammar you can use the subjunctive present form.

    But why you ask that?
  9. SunnRise New Member

    I knew it's Subj. but explain more please, how could you render it this way (let him..)?

    someone wrote: Atque aliquis decat,, and rendered it thus: (and let any one say, OR, but someone may say), can you explain this please? this is the Q.
  10. Scholiast

    Scholiast Senior Member


    I come late to this thread, so apologies if I have missed something.

    The direct answer to the "Q" is in two parts.

    1. "atque aliquis dicat" would be correct. (dico, dicere &c.).
    2. This is 3rd pers. sing., subjunctive. Rhetorically, this looks like a concessive clause ("Someone may say [xyz], but I tell you..."). Or indeed, "Say what they like [unspecified persons]..."

    These formulations are close enough to "But someone may say..." &c.
  11. stevelogan Junior Member

    So the question is...?
    You'd like to know how to say dicere in subj form want to say the meaning of a latin sentence or... do you have a grammar question...?

    It might be more easy if you'd write the complete sentence in English, or in Latin, and ask for what you need/want.
  12. SunnRise New Member

    my question is answered if you explain this (This[i.e amet] is a way to express the imperative, but in form of an exhortation)
  13. SunnRise New Member

    when I come to think of it I find myself erred in writing many words. e.g amas for amat, amor for amoris, and this decat for dicat. and after writing it dawns at me that I've erred.
    maybe for I haven't practiced Latin for months or years like ye :)
  14. stevelogan Junior Member

    Sorry I thought it was quite self explanatory: you can use subjunctive form to exhort/command someone, exhorting is a way to express imperatives....
    It is the same in english that does not have an autonomous imperative form (it has not even past and future) an use the clause "let" that is an exhortation (a command, a call to action) to create the imperative.... "let us go"...
  15. relativamente Senior Member

    catalan and spanish
    Imperative in Latin has two forms for orders to be obeyed now or rather soon, ama, dic, lege, etc and orders to be obeyed in longer time or always, amato, dicito, legito. The first form is the only to have passed to vulgar whereas to second is typical of more formal Latin. For example in the "lex duodecim tabularum" is used a lot the form with ending -to
  16. SunnRise New Member

    yes but I needed a further explanation to affirm it. what Grammar book do ya use? thanks steve

    thank you :)
  17. Cagey post mod

    English - US
    <The rules of the forum allow us to> questions about Latin in specific contexts. We cannot give general instruction in Latin.

    You will do better to consult a grammar book or textbook. We do not recommend books, but you may find online help in our: Resources Collection (links).
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  18. SunnRise New Member

    I meant to ask where exactly I can find that point so that I may know more about it. thanks
  19. Cagey post mod

    English - US
    If I understand your question correctly, in English, this use of the subjunctive is sometimes called the 'jussive subjunctive' and sometimes the 'hortatory subjunctive'.

    It is explained in Bennett's New Latin Grammar (1918) in section 275 on the jussive subjunctive. This book is available online in the, one of the sources listed in our stick. See Bennett's New Latin Grammar, .

    In Allen and Greenough's New Latin Grammar (1903) it is called a "hortatory subjunctive" and discussed in section 439.

    If you are using a grammar book or textbook written in English, you should be able to find the explanation listed under one of the terms.

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