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There's a pig that comes to me in my dreams and tells me what languages to learn

Discussion in 'Türkçe (Turkish)' started by chifladoporlosidiomas, Nov 17, 2012.

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  1. chifladoporlosidiomas Senior Member

    San Francisco
    English (US)
    Merhaba!

    I have yet another question for you wonderful people! I'm trying to translate a sentence, but I'm having problems with certains parts of the sentence and I've come up with several possibilities. I've only been learning Turkish for the past two weeks so please bare with me. :D

    "There's a pig that comes to me in my dreams and tells me what languages to learn."

    My attempts:

    1. Hayallarımda bana gelen domuz, hangi dilleri öğrenmeyimi/ögrenmek bana söyler. (Doesn't have the 'var' but…)
    2. Hayallarımda bana gel var olan domuz (benim) hangi dilleri öğrendiğimi bana söyler.

    I'm looking forward to your responses :D Thanks.
     
  2. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Ankara
    Turkish
    Nice tries! ;)

    Don't forget that the main verb (usually) goes to the end.
    The main verb in your sentence is: There is a pig that.... So, the var (there is) will be in the end.
    There is a pig. = Bir domuz var.

    The relative clauses will come before the noun 'pig', they are like adjectives. And we add -en/-an in this case. So:
    There is a pig that comes to me in my dreams. = Hayallerimde* bana gelen bir domuz var.

    *Hayal is an irregular word, used with soft vowels when received a suffix.

    ---
    "... tells me what languages to learn." We'd rather say in Turkish: ... what languages I will learn (or should learn), but let's stick with the future tense. And the verb tell will be in adjective form again, so: ... hangi dilleri öğreneceğimi söyleyen

    So the whole sentence is: Hayallerimde bana gelen ve hangi dilleri öğreneceğimi söyleyen bir domuz var.

    This is a perfect sentence as it is. But in Turkish, if we have a series of verbs that have the same form (gelen..... söyleyen), we prefer to use the -ip form in all the verbs (and thus get rid of the connector ve) except the last one to make the sentence flow easier on the ear, so: Hayallerimde bana gelip hangi dilleri öğreneceğimi söyleyen bir domuz var.

    And finally, hayal is rather day-dreaming. The dreams that you have at night are called rüya.
    So the exact translation would have been: Rüyalarımda bana gelip hangi dilleri öğreneceğimi söyleyen bir domuz var.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  3. ancalimon Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    You can also use düşlerimde (düş) instead of rüyalarımda.

    and I think it's better to say:

    Düşlerimde bana gelip hangi dilleri öğrenmemi söyleyen bir domuz var.

    Because Hayallerimde bana gelip hangi dilleri öğreneceğimi söyleyen bir domuz var. sounds like "There's a pig that comes to me in my dreams and tells me what languages I will learn."
    Don't you think?
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  4. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Ankara
    Turkish
    Does this sound natural to you? Sure, it's a word-by-word translation, but it sounds totally off, in my opinion.
    I would definitely use the future tense.
     
  5. The Lord of Gluttony Senior Member

    Earth
    Turkish
    Perhaps, it's an advice pig. :D

    Düşlerimde bana gelip hangi dilleri öğrenmem gerektiğini söyleyen bir domuz var.
     
  6. ancalimon Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    Would using "which" instead of "what" change the meaning of the sentence?
     
  7. chifladoporlosidiomas Senior Member

    San Francisco
    English (US)
    Thanks so much! A very in-depth answer! I'll remember to put the main verb at the end :p that's the part that tripped me up the most.

    Yeah, because I won't necessarily learn each language that the pig tells me; i like the option of "öğrenmemi" or even an option with -sem would be fine.

    In this context, they both mean the same thing to me.
     
  8. The Lord of Gluttony Senior Member

    Earth
    Turkish
    Öğrenmemi does not make any sense. Please don't use it.
     
  9. chifladoporlosidiomas Senior Member

    San Francisco
    English (US)
    Ok, I won't use it. But how would you say "I should" instead of I will? Düşlerimde bana gelip hangi dilleri öğrensem söyleyen bir domuz var?
     
  10. ancalimon Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    You use "öğrenmemi söyleyen" like I said. :)

    Or maybe,

    Hangi dilleri öğrensem diye konuşan bir domuz var... .??
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2012
  11. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Ankara
    Turkish
    I suppose Ancalimon is joking.

    You can have:
    Bu dili öğrenmemi söyleyen
    Türkçe öğrenmemi söyleyen
    Bazı dilleri öğrenmemi söyleyen

    But not: ...hangi dilleri öğrenmemi söyleyen... This is plain wrong. It simply doesn't work.
    As The Lord of Gluttony said in post #5: Düşlerimde bana gelip hangi dilleri öğrenmem gerektiğini söyleyen bir domuz var.
     
  12. Guner

    Guner Senior Member

    Australia
    Turkish
    Alternatively you can drop "hangi" :
    "Düşlerimde bana gelip, öğrenmem/öğrenilmesi gereken dilleri söyleyen bir domuz var."

    Using "hangi" is like using "what" in this case.
    So instead of
    "There's a pig that comes to me in my dreams and tells me what languages to learn."
    "There's a pig that comes to me in my dreams and tells me the languages to learn."

    Now coming back to your question : "But how would you say "I should" instead of "I will?"
    I believe "gereken" still sounds like you must learn them. So it is not really a direct translation of a "should".
    And the original sentence does not necessarily indicate that it is "you" who should learn those languages.
    Otherwise it should read:
    ".....and tells me what languages I should learn." Hence my alternative "öğrenilmesi" translation.

    As there is sometimes no one-to-one translation differentiation for "should", "must", "have to", "ought to" ,"can" in many contexts, you may need to change the sentence a bit to give the right meaning. So if you want to emphasize the "should" meaning (the pig simply suggests them) I'd go with:

    "Düşlerimde bana gelip, öğrenmem/öğrenilmesi gereken dilleri öneren bir domuz var."
    or adding bits from Rallino:
    "Düşlerimde bana gelip, bazı dilleri öğrenmemi söyleyen/öneren bir domuz var."

    PS: ...no wonder you are "crazy for languages", "chiflado por los idiomas" ...I mean pigs coming to your dreams :)
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  13. ancalimon Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    I think you are right about "öğrenmemi söyleyen" being wrong usage when used with "hangi". I think the following translation is the best one:

    There's a pig that comes to me in my dreams and tells me what languages to learn.

    Düşlerimde, hangi dilleri öğrensem diye benimle gelip konuşan bir domuz var. :tick:


    What I have in mind is whether "tell" is used with a meaning other than "say". I think it might mean "advice, suggest, recommend, tempt" in which case the translation should be:

    Düşlerimde, hangi dilleri öğrensem diye bana öğüt veren bir domuz var.
    Düşlerimde, bana hangi dilleri öğrenebileceğimi öneren bir domuz var.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2012
  14. The Lord of Gluttony Senior Member

    Earth
    Turkish
    Does the pig ask for an advice or give an advice? It is not clear who asks for advice in this translation.

    This does not sound natural to me. But, I wonder what others think about that translation.


    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  15. Reverence Senior Member

    Turkish
    Rüyalarıma girip bana hangi dilleri öğreneceğimi söyleyen bir domuz var.

    No need to get unnecessarily complicated.
     
  16. The Lord of Gluttony Senior Member

    Earth
    Turkish
    I can't see any future tense in the sentence: "There's a pig that comes to me in my dreams and tells me what languages to learn."
    Using future tense in the translation as an only option is just wrong.

    We are not making it complicated or anything ;) We're trying to do our best translation here, to produce something constructive. The future tense does NOT completely work here. It is an option, but not equal to the given sentence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2012
  17. Reverence Senior Member

    Turkish
    Uh, you're taking offense where none was intended. I didn't mean to belittle anyone's efforts here or anything; I honestly appreciate them all, that goes without saying. That said, redundancy doesn't help much.

    You're so awfully defensive, I don't know what to say. Or, "ne diyeceğimi bilemiyorum." Heh. See the future tense there?
     
  18. ecdadihifzeylerdi Junior Member

    Turkish

    This is not the exact translation, but I would use it like this:

    1. "Rüyalarımda bana hangi dili öğrenmem gerektiğini söyleyen bir domuz görüyorum."
    2. "Rüyalarımda bana hangi dili öğrenmem gerektiğini söyleyen bir domuza rastlıyorum."


     
  19. The Lord of Gluttony Senior Member

    Earth
    Turkish
    Then, I beg for your pardon. Of a surety, you can continue to translate it as you desire, misleading the original poster, as if the future tense is the only option. However, the truth is, the translation with future tense isn't exactly equivalent to what was meant by the sentence in the title.

    "I don't know what to say" = "Ne demeliyim bilmiyorum."
     
  20. Reverence Senior Member

    Turkish
    "The only option?"

    Wonder where in my post I gave reason for any such presumption.

    One of the essentials when it comes to translation business is that there is no one true translation. There are synonyms, interchangeable words and patterns, alternatives, and eventually, entire styles. If you actually think I implied that the future tense is the only option there, I believe you've read my post in a hurry.

    Also, there is a grammatical error in your translation: you missed a comma after "demeliyim".

    "Ne demem gerektiğini bilmiyorum" would also be acceptable, but in all honesty, which one would you actually prefer?
     
  21. ancalimon Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    Is there a rule somebody can show me, which stops us from using "*memi" toget with "hangi" ?

    Hangi yemekleri yememi söyledin?
    **Hangi yemekleri yememi söyleyen bir annem var.

    Hangi kitapları okumamı söylediniz?
    **Hangi kitapları okumamı söyleyen bir öğretmenim var.
    Hangi kitapları okumamı önerirsiniz?
    **Hangi kitapları okumamı öneren bir öğretmenim var.

    So is there a rule which stops us from using "hangi" when the sentence is not a question?

    What are the roles of "hangi yemekleri" and "hangi kitapları" in the sentences with ** ?

    I realized that we don't use this form very much but it definitely does not sound wrong in any way.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
  22. Rallino Moderatoúrkos

    Ankara
    Turkish
    I believe the whole subject has thoroughly been discussed. And the whole thread is now three times as long as it should/could have been, and as you know, the longer it gets, the more boring it becomes to read it for future users.

    So, to sum up:

    "There's a pig that comes to me in my dreams and tells me what languages to learn." can be translated as follows:



    There are a hundred thousand ways to decorate a sentence and surely it's not in our scope to include every possible alternative.
    Therefore, if you have further questions, please create a new thread.

    Thanks to everyone who participated in the discussion. :)

    Thread closed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2012
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