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These grapes are the sweetest in the world.

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by Pasquale Gatto, Jun 4, 2007.

  1. Pasquale Gatto

    Pasquale Gatto Senior Member

    Pennsylvania, USA
    English USA
    Ciao a tutti,

    I translated "These grapes are the sweetest in the world." to "Questa è l'uva più dolce del mondo." in an excercise that I was practicing.

    The answer given in the book is "Quest'uva è la più dolce del mondo.".

    Am I correct also? If I'm not correct please explain why. I did other exercises where I translated as described above and I was correct according to the book.

    Grazie,

    PG
     
  2. perfavore Senior Member

    USA
    Philippines - Tagalog
    Hi,
    I think your translation says, "This is grape sweeter in the world." I can't help explain your other exercises.
     
  3. _forumuser_

    _forumuser_ Senior Member

    New York City
    Italian
    Your sentence is impeccable Italian, though it means:

    These are the world's sweetest grapes.

    NB: On a second look, both accents in your sentence "point in the wrong direction". They should be both "gravi": [SIZE=-1]è , più.[/SIZE]
     
  4. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    And not with plurals, FU? "Queste sono le uva più dolci nel mondo"?
     
  5. Pasquale Gatto

    Pasquale Gatto Senior Member

    Pennsylvania, USA
    English USA
    Grazie. I find that the book that I use to teach myself sometimes uses English which is not in the exact context of the Italian that I'm learning.
     
  6. Pasquale Gatto

    Pasquale Gatto Senior Member

    Pennsylvania, USA
    English USA
    I did research on "uva" (in this forum actually) and found that grapes is almost always referred to in the singular. In samples that I looked at the verbs and adjectives used in conjunction with "uva" were singular.
     
  7. _forumuser_

    _forumuser_ Senior Member

    New York City
    Italian
    It depends. Can't grapes work as an uncountable noun in English? E.g.:

    Porta l'uva > bring the grapes.

    If the sentence is indeed about multiple types of grapes then it should be:

    Queste sono le uve piu' dolci del mondo. (or)
    Queste uve sono le piu' dolci del/al mondo.
     
  8. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    I'm not sure how to answer that, FU. We'd still use the plural, same as if the oranges or oceans or children or pencils were the best in the world.

    EDIT: Aren't uncountable nouns in English normally represented by the singular (information, for example)?
     
  9. Pasquale Gatto

    Pasquale Gatto Senior Member

    Pennsylvania, USA
    English USA
    The grapes in these examples are not refering to multiple types. :)
     
  10. _forumuser_

    _forumuser_ Senior Member

    New York City
    Italian
    Yes, sorry about the confusion. I meant to say that in EN you use the plural for both "to eat the grapes" (mangiare l'uva) and "to mix the grapes" (mischiare le uve), while in IT we switch form singular to plural. The word grapes in our sentence could be translated as either uva or uve, depending on what it means. I feel I'm on to something, but I'm not sure what that is....:D
     
  11. parhuzam Senior Member

    Los Angeles,CA
    USA/English/Español
    You can say in English," this grape is the best......." when specifically referring to a type of grape..." the nebbiolo is the best grape in the world..."
    to qualify a product as the best..... you are talking about its qualities in general...

    "Quest'uva é la piú dolce del mondo.". this is describing that
    type of grape in general.... and not just that particular grape in your mouth.

    I think "forimuser" says it best....

    A presto..
     
  12. lsp

    lsp Senior Member

    NY
    US, English
    Yes, I see what you're saying. But we would say that in the singular, as you wrote it. However, the original that needed to be translated from EN did not use the singular (in post#1: "I translated 'These grapes are the sweetest in the world.' to..."), even though such a construction exists in certain contexts. Apparently this is not such a context. That's what prompted my question.
     
  13. parhuzam Senior Member

    Los Angeles,CA
    USA/English/Español
    In the Italian it would be similar to saying.... This type of grape is (la) the sweetest in the world.... and la is singular..

    In your Italian translation.. you are saying "This is the grape that is sweetest in the world.
    The book: This grape (collective) is the sweetest in the world. .....which is referring to a type of grape.
    It is subtle in English, but there is a difference in Italian. It depends largely where you place the verb "essere."

    I hope it helps.
     
  14. Pasquale Gatto

    Pasquale Gatto Senior Member

    Pennsylvania, USA
    English USA
    Sorry. Now I'm confused. :confused:

    Let me try again. :eek:

    The chapter from which I was learning was set in an open market. So the context that I'm looking for is, how would an open air market vendor state "These grapes are the sweetest in the world." to potential customers?

    My answer was "Questa è l'uva più dolce del mondo."

    The answer given in the book is "Quest'uva è la più dolce del mondo.".

    My questions are, am I correct also? Are both of these answers the same? I believe that they are.

    Grazie.
     
  15. _forumuser_

    _forumuser_ Senior Member

    New York City
    Italian
    If my memory doesn't fail me, I believe I answered the very same question earlier today.... :D
     
  16. Pasquale Gatto

    Pasquale Gatto Senior Member

    Pennsylvania, USA
    English USA
    Forumuser,

    You did. In reading some of the other replies after you answered I became confused. ;)

    Molte grazie!

    PG
     
  17. tericcia

    tericcia Senior Member

    Bari-Italy
    Italy-Italian
    Yes, you are correct. The meaning is exactly the same. The difference is in the role of "questa" that changes:
    Questa è l'uva più dolce del mondo= these (ones) are the sweetest grapes in the world. QUESTA=>sostantivo (noun)
    Quest'uva è la più dolce del mondo= These grapes are the sweetest in the world. QUESTA=>aggettivo (adjective)
    Hope this helps!
     
  18. Pasquale Gatto

    Pasquale Gatto Senior Member

    Pennsylvania, USA
    English USA
    Yes, it helped. Grazie.

    Capisco.
     
  19. perfavore Senior Member

    USA
    Philippines - Tagalog
     
  20. parhuzam Senior Member

    Los Angeles,CA
    USA/English/Español
    Salve,

    In the context of a vendor with his grapes in front of him.... both answers say the same thing. He is selling his specific crop....my thought was about
    group discussing the qualities of a wine and a grape.
    Now my question to the native speakers is how important is the "natural flow" of Italian to to the usage..... for instance in US English you wouldn't have an American vendor say "This grape is the...." although you can translate and it would be correct in Italian....

    Grazie.
     

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