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Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried

Discussion in 'Italian-English' started by kayaker, Jan 2, 2007.

  1. kayaker New Member

    milan
    milano italia
    Hi everyone,
    Can you help me to translate this e-mail sent to me yesterday?

    "Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
    Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel"

    I've been studying English for 8 months but Shakespeare is too much
    for my poor English

    Thanks for helping a bad student
     
  2. femmejolie Senior Member

    Madrid
    Spanish (Spain)
     
  3. TrentinaNE Senior Member

    USA
    English (American)
    Don't feel badly. I have no idea what "their adoption tried" means, and I've been speaking English for decades (just not 16th century decades). ;)

    Elisabetta
     
  4. SPQR Senior Member

    US
    American English
    The friends that you have, and friends have proven themselves,
    hold them close to your soul with hoops of steel

    Or, in other words...
    Keep your true friends close.
     
  5. Jamila

    Jamila Senior Member

    Italian
    Hamlet 1.3.62-3

    gli amici di provata fedeltà
    aggràppateli saldamente al cuore
    con uncini d'acciaio

    from www.liberliber.it
     
  6. Canna823 Senior Member

    Michigan
    Mandarin
    Maybe the sparknotes can help you out.

    Link to the quote

    Link to the explanation
     
  7. Raphillon Senior Member

    Rome
    Italy
    My try :)

    Gli amici che hai, che ti han dimostrato la loro fedeltà
    legateli stretti all'anima, con cavi d'acciaio
     
  8. femmejolie Senior Member

    Madrid
    Spanish (Spain)
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kayaker
    "Those friends thou(you) hast(have), and their adoption tried,
    Grapple(lotta con loro) them to thy (your)soul with hoops(cerchi) of steel"


    Hoops = cavi? uncini? (Hoops -->Hooks??)
    Grapple WITH them= lotta con loro
    It's a mistake of mine
    Grapple them (literary) = aggrappali, afferrali
     
  9. kayaker New Member

    milan
    milano italia
    grazie per la tua disponibilita'
    la tua buona azione verso uno studente duro
    di comprendonio ti sara' certamente ripagata

    Ciao
    a presto
    K.
     
  10. Raphillon Senior Member

    Rome
    Italy
    Una parola su "Grapple". In Inglese "grapple" è un verbo che indica il lottare avvinghiati, tipo lotta greco-romana, per intenderci. Qui il bardo intende, con questa sola parola rappresentare a forti colori sia la lotta sia lo sforzo.

    Non "tie them" (legali)
    Ma "grapple them"

    "Afferrali e lotta con tutte le tue forze e con tutto il tuo sudore per tenerli stretti a te"

    Le parole sono importanti. Quest'uso profondo, ricercato, di simili parole segna la differenza fra un genio della poesia ed uno che, semplicemente, parla e scrive in una data lingua.

    Che invidia, sigh! :(
     
  11. jennijenni

    jennijenni Senior Member

    Tampa, Florida, USA
    American English (AE) / USA
     
  12. jennijenni

    jennijenni Senior Member

    Tampa, Florida, USA
    American English (AE) / USA
    EARLY MODERN ENGLISH (SHAKESPEARE) TO MODERN ENGLISH
    I compiled this myself since I couldn't find a good link online.

    ____(verb)_____ not = (Example: Gather not) Means "don't gather" as a command
    Abide = Stay (command)
    Abode (verb) = Lived at/with
    About thee = Around you
    About = about, around, through
    Accounted worthy = considered worthy, deemed worthy
    Adoption = selection, choice, inclusion as part of a family (more Modern English)
    After = after, in
    Aim = (most common) purpose
    Alas = (an interjection) Sadly, unfortunately, sure enough, oh no!
    Alms = charity, money given to the poor or less fortunate
    An = and, an
    Art = are
    Aught = anything
    Aye, Ay = yes
    Babe = baby
    Barren = unable to have/conceive children
    Be it unto me = Let it happen to me...
    Be not out with me = Don’t be annoyed with me.
    Behold = Look!
    Beseech = to implore, to plead, to request
    Bestride = to dominate, to cross
    Bestow = to give, to grant, to provide as a gift
    (the) best respect = the most respected people
    Betimes = early
    Betwixt = between
    Bid = to ask that
    Breast = chest
    Bring forth = conceive/create/produce
    Bring me word = tell me, let me know, come back and tell me
    Brooked = tolerated
    But that = except that
     
  13. jennijenni

    jennijenni Senior Member

    Tampa, Florida, USA
    American English (AE) / USA
    Cast = throw
    Cast forth = threw away / threw out
    A certain man = a particular man
    Chanced = (in Early Modern English, “what hath chanced”) [what has] happened
    Chief (adjective) = most important (generally only used as a noun today in the US)
    Cloak = overcoat, coat, garment
    Cogitations = thoughts
    Compassed me about = surrounded me
    Compassed thee round = surrounded you, encircled you
    Could not take hold of = Could not understand, could not grasp
    Day = day, daybreak, dawn
    Deck = to adorn, to decorate (decked or deck’d = adorned, decorated)
    Desired him that = wanted him to…
    Doest thou well to ________?= Does it do you any good to _______?
    Doeth = does/do
    Doth not = doesn’t, does not
    Durst not = dared not, was smart enough not to, realized I shouldn’t
    Dwelt = dwelled
    -est = -ed (verb ending - past tense or past participle)
    -eth = -e/es/s (verb ending - present tense)
    Ere = previous to, before
    Ever = Always, Forever
    Feeble = weak
    Fellow = Friend, Neighbor, Brother
    Foolery = Joking around, kidding, to jest
    For = Because, For (when "for" begins a sentence, it normally means "because")
    For Naught = for nothing, for no good reason
    Forewarn = (More common now) Warn, Tell someone that something bad will happen
    Forsomuch = because, in consideration of/that
    Frankly = In Early Modern English, immediately, directly
    Gamesome = playful, kidding around, joking
    Get you = go (command)
    Give some soil = to give some weight to, to attribute to
    Godspeed = (a greeting/farewell) May God be with you, may God hurry things along
    Goodman = homeowner, head of the household
    Good morrow = good morning (a greeting)
     
  14. jennijenni

    jennijenni Senior Member

    Tampa, Florida, USA
    American English (AE) / USA
    Ha’ = had, have
    Hadst = had
    Had Bidden = had called
    Hale = To Bring, Drag
    Hand = side, hand
    Hath = has
    Held their peace = did not say anything, kept their thoughts to themselves
    Hence = now, immediately
    Hereafter = from this point forward, afterwards, from now on
    Hither = here
    Ho = stop, wait, (sometimes, hello)
    Hold me dangerous = consider me dangerous
    Hooted = shouted
    Husbandmen = workers, field workers
    I’ = in
    I am promised forth = I have already made a commitment to someone/something else
    I pray = I hope, I pray, I request that
    Idle = lazy
    In the press = in the audience
    In such a sort = in such a way, in a particular way
    Is like = is pleased
    It came to pass = So it happened...
    Justify = to make right (often, to make right in the eyes of God)
    Knave = (normally an insult) man, servant, crafty man, deceitful man
    Knewest = knew
    Lame = injured, disabled
    Laugher = jokester, prankster
    Layeth = lay
    Lay his fingers off = let go of
    Lest = Unless
    Likewise = also, in the same vain, similarly
    Livelong day = all day long, the full day, the entire day
    Lo = surely, certainly
    Loose (verb) = to untie
    Magistrate (noun) = judge
    Make Haste = Hurry
    Make Holiday = to take a vacation
    Many a time = many times
    Mayest = may, can
    Meat = food (and sometimes specifically meat)
    Mighty = huge, large, strong
    Mine = my
    Much = much, many
     
  15. jennijenni

    jennijenni Senior Member

    Tampa, Florida, USA
    American English (AE) / USA
    Nay = no
    Naught = nothing
    Ne’er = never
    Nigh = close, near, near to
    Noised = heard
    O = oh
    Oft = often
    Of late = recently
    On = of, on
    Ope = open
    Over against = across from
    Peep about = look around
    Pipe = to play a pipe or flute
    (to) please to = to want to
    Pluck’d, Plucked = pulled
    Profane (verb) = To Defile
    Rabble, Rabblement = Crowd, rowdy crowd
    Render = Give, Turn over to, Surrender
    Reverence him = respect him, revere him
    Rightly = correctly
    Rule = (1) reign (2) rule (3) ruler [measuring instrument]
    Run it’s course, run his course = come to completion
    Sanctify = to make clean, to make pure
    Saucy = brazen, gutsy, overly direct
    Save (adverb) = except
    Say on = (command) Say it / Go ahead and say it.
    Set him before me = bring him before me
    Set on = go ahead
    Shall = will
    Shalt = shall/will
    Smote = struck, destroyed
    So it is = that’s the way it is (figuratively in some cases, “I agree”)
    Somewhat = something
    Sought to = tried to, attempted to
    (In a) Sour fashion = negative way, with a poor attitude, gloomily
    Spake = spoke
    Straightway = immediately, surely
    Stripes = wounds, gashes
    Sup, supper = dinner, to have dinner
    Superscription = (more common now) inscription
    Swoun / Swoon = to faint OR to be overcome with joy
     
  16. jennijenni

    jennijenni Senior Member

    Tampa, Florida, USA
    American English (AE) / USA
    Take heed = Be careful, Be cautious
    Take no thought for = don’t place too much value on
    Take thought for = put so much value on
    Taper = candle
    Tarry / Tarried = Spend too much time / spent too much time
    Tell-tale = obvious sign
    Thee = you / yourself (reflexive)
    Thereof = there, who were there
    Thereon = on top of it
    Therein = inside, in, there
    Thine = your (plural noun after it)
    Thither = there
    Thou = you
    Thrice = three times
    Throng = the crowd, the back of a group, the masses
    Thy = your (singular noun after it)
    Till / 'til = until ('til is still used at times as a contraction in Modern English)
    ‘Tis = It is
    Trade = occupation
    Trouble not thyself = don’t go to any trouble
    Truly = yes, that’s right, that’s true
    Try = to test, to prove worthy through testing
    ‘Twas = It was
    Underlings = servants
    Unto = to
    Upon = on, upon, at
    Usury = monetary interest (income on invested money)
    Veil = veil, disguise (phrase in Early Modern English “to veil my look”)
    Verily = Truly, In Truth
    Wares = Goods, Items, Products
    Weep = to cry
    Wench = servant woman, low-class woman
    Were I = If I were…
    What manner of = what kind of
    What means… = What is the meaning of, Why is there / are you
    Whence = (varies) From Where, Why, How
    Whereby = How
    Wherefore = why
    Wherein = in which, inside which, wherein, in what way OR How
    Whiles = while
    Whosoever = whoever
    Why = why (as question/interrogative), well, um (as interjection)
    Winebibber = wine drinker (someone who drinks wine, generally too much)
    Wont to = accustomed to
    Wretch = wreck, lowly person
    Wretched = miserable, worthless, terrible
    Ye = you
    Yea = Yes
    Yonder = far away place, in the distance, faraway, distant
     
  17. Raphillon Senior Member

    Rome
    Italy
    Thank you very much, jennijenni. I've copied your great work. This could be very useful. :)
     
  18. HughJarse New Member

    English
    The friends thou hast and their adoption tried
    Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel.

    Its a bit like the course of true love not running a smooth path.

    Every relationship has its ups and downs. Sometimes you may have arguments and dissagreements. 'Their adoption' or to put it another way, ' they place their trust in you' and even if that trust or faith is tested, you remain friends. Therefore 'tried' is another word for 'tested' and 'adoption' could be 'faith'

    If you have a friend who sees all your weaknesses and character faults but places their trust and faith in you nonetheless then dont ever let them go.

    The fact that Shakespeare uses the phrase 'grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel' shows how importantly he sees his friendships. They are so importanty that he would put them on a par with the divine. He doesnt say 'grapple them to Thy heart' The soul had much more signifcance in the 16th Century

    This is a brillliant and inspired piece of language and the best description of friendship I have ever read and is as true today as when it was written

    Best wishes and God bless
     
  19. Memimao Senior Member

    Busto Arsizio, Italy
    United Kingdom English
    POLONIO : Ancora qui, Laerte? A bordo, a bordo, via! Il vento è sulla spalla alla tua vela e ti si aspetta. Qua, ti benedico! E cerca di stamparti nella mente questi pochi consigli. Ai pensieri non dar voce, né corpo a quelli smoderati. Sii affabile, volgare mai. Coloro dei tuoi amici che hai messo bene a prova tienili stretti all'anima con cerchioni d'acciaio, però non t'incallire la palma a dar manate a ogni smargiasso appena sgusciato e spennato. Guardati dalle brighe, ma quando ci sei dentro a guardarsi da te fa' che sia l'altro. Presta l'orecchio a tutti, la tua voce a qualcuno, senti le idee di tutti ma pensa a modo tuo. Vesti bene, nei limiti della tua borsa, ma senza stranezze, ricco, non chiassoso, perché spesso il vestito mostra l'uomo, e in Francia quelli che hanno e che possono in questo soprattutto si mostrano signori. Non domandare soldi e non prestarne: chi presta perde i quattrini e l'amico, chi chiede smussa il filo della frugalità. Questo su tutto: fedeltà a te stesso; ne seguirà, come la notte al giorno, che non sarai mai falso con nessuno. Addio, ti renda saggio la mia benedizione.
     

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