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tirador/francotirador

Discussion in 'Spanish-English Vocabulary / Vocabulario Español-Inglés' started by Sammo, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. Sammo Senior Member

    English
    Hay palabras en ingles que más o menos significan la misma cosa.

    "Sharpshooter" , "sniper", y "marksmen".


    Ahora, me pregunta es de dos partes:

    1)
    ¿Es tirador un sinónimo de "francotirador"? Casi siempre veo que a la palabra "sniper" le ponen como traducción "francotirador" cuando yo creo que esa palabra es el equivalente de "sharpshooter" y "sniper" prefería yo usar cuando se dice "sniper". ¿Así que, tengo razón?

    y

    2)
    ¿Hay otra palabra que se usa para describir la misma cosa? Por curiosidad...
     
  2. Filis Cañí Senior Member

    The hills
    Triana, caló
    A sniper is anyone with a gun shooting from a concealed location: Francotirador.
    A sharpshooter is someone trained in the army or police force to hit targets at very long distances: tirador.

    Así que si lo he entendido bien, tiene usted razón.
     
  3. Sammo Senior Member

    English
    Pero usted lo tiene a lo contrario de lo que escribí.

    ¿Así que me está diciendo que estoy equivocado o no?
     
  4. matthews028 Senior Member

    Orlando, FL
    English, USA
    Hmm, well, the two words (sniper, sharpshooter) are quite similar but not necessarily identical--a sniper is just somebody with a good long-range gun, not necessarily someone who's GOOD at it. But in my understanding, a sharpshooter is anyone who shoots well, more commonly from a distance, but not necessarily. And we don't use "sniper" very much metaphorically, unlike "sharpshooter".

    So they're not really the exact same, I don't think. I think it makes sense for there to be different Spanish words for the two.
     
  5. Sammo Senior Member

    English
    No, not really. A "sniper" is someone who is trained, usually by the military, and shoots targets from a concealed place. A "sharpshooter" is a term for someone who is highly proficient at shooting. A "marksman" is pretty much a synonym for "sharpshooter" except when it comes to marksmanship ratings, then it's the level below "sharpshooter" which would be the the second highest grade.

    Maybe with this extra information we can find some equivalents faster. :)
     
  6. matthews028 Senior Member

    Orlando, FL
    English, USA
    I think you just said almost exactly what I said. Sharpshooters = marksmen; they both mean "good at shooting guns". Snipers shoot from a long ways away from a concealed location.

    Let's hope.
     
  7. Filis Cañí Senior Member

    The hills
    Triana, caló
    Si lo que escribió usted es lo contrario de lo que escribí yo, sí le digo que está usted equivocado. Eso es una opinión mía, claro.

    Of course, a sniper can also be a sharp-shooter, but one thing doesn't imply the other.
     
  8. Sammo Senior Member

    English
    No. You said that a sniper "is just somebody with a good long-range gun, not necessarily someone who's GOOD at it." That's not similar to mine at all. Plus you didn't even mention the word "marksman" in your initial post.

    I have to stress though that this isn't even part of my question. My question is finding and matching equivalent Spanish words to each of the three English words.
     
  9. Filis Cañí Senior Member

    The hills
    Triana, caló
    It's hard to come up with a translation if we don't agree on what the words mean in English in the first place. I think you are looking at the words from a purely "military lingo" perspective. If a coronel tells a captain "place a sniper on that roof", I'm sure the captain will choose a sharp-shooter to fill that post, and not Cross-eyed Joe. But the war accounts are full of sniping civilians (say, not too long in Sarajevo) who harass soldiers or other civilians without neccesarily being any good at it.
    I'll tell you what the words mean in Spanish, and you can call them whatever you want in English:

    Francotirador: Someone, military or civilian, a poor or a good shot, who hides somewhere with a rifle to shoot at people, military or civilian.

    Tirador: A good shot, trained by whoever.
     
  10. Sammo Senior Member

    English
    Well, they are "military lingos" in the first place. That's where the terms come from. :)

    And my definitions come from the dictionary. Not my opinions. You can look them up yourself and see.


    Now, according to you...can you use the word "tirador" in place of a "francotirador" to mean the same thing?
     
  11. Cinnabyte Senior Member

    Barcelona, Spain
    Spain, Spanish + English
    Tirador (good or bad) does not imply being hidden, whereas francotirador (sniper) is out of sight. At least in Spanish.
     
  12. Filis Cañí Senior Member

    The hills
    Triana, caló
    I'll remit you to a Spanish dictionary myself.
     
  13. Magazine Senior Member

    España
    No, you can't.
     
  14. Sammo Senior Member

    English
    I hope you didn't take my comment the wrong way.


    Ok, so based on what I'm getting here then, "tirador" seems to be the equivalent of "marksman". Whereas "francotirador" (as I suspected) is for "sharpshooter".

    Now, considering the word "sniper", is there a synonym for "francotirador"?
     
  15. Filis Cañí Senior Member

    The hills
    Triana, caló
    I found this under francotirador in Wikipedia, Sammo, which backs your claim and contradicts the definition given in the RAE's dictionary and what I understood a francotirador to be. It also answers your last question.

    La definición tradicional de un francotirador es la de un soldado de infantería experto en tareas de camuflaje y tirador de élite, que dispara con un fusil a grandes distancias y desde un lugar oculto, a objetivos seleccionados. Típica e idealmente, un francotirador hábil se acerca al enemigo (que desconoce su presencia), utiliza una sola bala por blanco y se retira sin ser visto.
    El origen del término se sitúa en la Guerra Franco-prusiana de 1870-1871. Las mejoras técnicas habían permitido al ejército francés dotarse de rifles de largo alcance, ideales para abatir enemigos desde posiciones lejanas. Los soldados prusianos los llamaban "franc-tireurs", esto es, "tiradores francos" (franceses). Esta situación fue la que llevó a los soldados alemanes a cometer crímenes en contra de la población civil, especialmente en Bélgica, durante la primera guerra mundial, pues aún tenían el recuerdo de las bajas producidas por estos tiradores durante el conflicto anterior.
    En las últimas décadas el término francotirador ha sido utilizado libremente, especialmente por medios de comunicación en asociación con los tiradores de precisión de la policía, para los responsables en asesinatos, a aquellos que disparan a distancias largas y para cualquier criminal que está equipado de un rifle en un contexto civil.
    Estos nuevos significados ha dado a la palabra francotirador connotaciones peyorativas. También explica el incremento del uso de términos alternativos, especialmente para francotiradores de la policía, como tirador de precisión, tirador de élite, tirador táctico, etc.
     
  16. inib

    inib Senior Member

    La Rioja, Spain
    British English
    Acabo de "inocentemente" buscar una traducción acertada de "francotirador", lo cual me ha llevado a este hilo antiguo. Gracias Filis Cañi, por dar tus opiniones, y luego molestarte en comprobarlas, e incluso revisarlas. Pena que no recibieras respuesta posterior. :)
     
  17. calamario Senior Member

    Dallas, TX
    Spanish - Chile, Peru, Argentina, US Hispanic
    La traducción de "sniper" es siempre "francotirador", y es una persona que supuestamente no falla al disparar y lo hace ocultándose a larga distancia del objetivo. "Tirador" puede referirse incluso a un tirador aficionado sin ninguna precisión al disparar un arma; podría incluso tirar piedras y no balas.
     

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