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To call

Discussion in 'All Languages' started by ThomasK, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    How do you translate 'to call [someone by shouting (out)]" in yourlanguage? (E.g. I called him because I wanted to speak to him)

    And what words can you deduce from that same root? What derivations do you have? Think of English: a phone call, a calling(voc-ation), to call upon someone,... But I only want derivations based on your call-root, not translations of the latter words.

    Dutch:

    - Beroep, profession/ work (not just job – it refers to the contents)
    - roeping, vocation
    - oproep, phone call (but only when someone called you,not when you call him)
    - mensen oproepen om ..., to call upon people to ...
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  2. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Hebrew:
    לקרוא - likro, which is also used for to read.
     
  3. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Is it really? But can you use likro to refer to calling on the phone, to being called, etc. ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  4. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Not really, but is acceptable; i on first thought wanted to write it but then i thought it cant be.
    If you follow the strict use of words in hebrew then no, but less strict use would allow it in the past tense with explicitly stating on the phone.
    Another thing would be to tell someone "youre called on the phone (someones waiting on the line)".
     
  5. apmoy70 Senior Member

    Greek
    In Greek:

    To call: «Καλώ» [ka'lo] < Classical v. «καλέω/καλῶ» kăléō (uncontracted) / kalô (contracted) (Aeolic «κάλημι» kắlēmĭ, Arcadocypriot «καλήζω» kălḗzô) --> to call, call by name, summon (PIE *klh₁-, to call, shout cf Hitt. kališš, to call, summon; Skt. उषःकल (usah-kala), rooster (lit. 'he who cries at dawn'); Lat. calāre, to call, call out, announce).
    Derivatives:

    «Κλήση» ['klisi] (fem. noun) --> call (noun), phone call, calling, vocation, traffic ticket, paging < Classical third declension fem. noun «κλῆσις» klêsis --> calling, call
    «Κλήτευση ['klitefsi] (fem. noun) --> judicial summons < Classical third declension fem. noun «κλήτευσις» klḗteusis --> judicial/administrative summons
    «Κλητήρας» [kli'tiras] (masc. & fem. noun) --> Public officer responsible for the serving of legal summonses < Classical third declension masc. & fem. noun «κλητήρ» klētḗr --> summoner

    From the v. «καλέω/καλῶ»:

    «Ανακαλώ» [anaka'lo] --> to recall
    «Προσκαλώ» [proska'lo] -->to invite, summon
    «Προκαλώ» [proka'lo] --> to provoke, challenge
    «Κατακαλέω/κατακαλῶ» kătăkăléō (uncontracted) / kătăkalô (contracted) --> to invoke (it has not survived in the modern language); a famous Byzantine general (probably of Armenian stock) who lived in the second half of 11th c. CE was named after two participles: «Κατακαλῶν Κεκαυμένος» Katakalôn (Present tense active voice participle of v. «κατακαλῶ») Kekauménos (Perfect tense medio-passive voice participle of v. «καίω» kǽō, to light, burn); thus, his name is literally translated into English as
    The burnt invoker
    :)
     
  6. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    Czech:

    volati = to call;

    prefixed perfective verbs:
    povolati = to call up > povolání (= profession/occupation/job, der Beruf), adj. povolávací (= call-up), e.g. povolávací rozkaz (call-up papers, draft notice);
    předvolati = to call sb to the stand, to summon;
    svolati = to summon e.g. Parliament;
    zavolati = to make a (phone) call, to ring (up), to phone;
    vyvolati = to cause/induce e.g. a stir, quarrel, uproar, chaos, fears, ...; to evoke, to provoke; vyvolati film (= to develop a film); vyvolati žáka k tabuli (= einen Schüler im Unterricht aufrufen, an die Tafel rufen, to call a pupil to the blackboard);
    obvolati = to call round, to ring round;
    dovolati se = to get/obtain/achieve (e.g. justice); to reach sb on the phone;
    odvolati = to call off, to recant;
    odvolati se = to appeal;

    derived verbal nouns: volání (= calling, a phone-call), povolání (= profession, Beruf), předvolání (notice to appear), svolání, vyvolání, obvolání, odvolání (= appeal, Berufung), ...; povolávání, předvolávání, obvolávání, ...;
    derived nouns: vyvolávač (= barker, a person who loudly addresses passers-by to attract customers), svolatel (= who summons), ...;

    noun volavka (= volavý pták) = decoy (bird), volavka is also a woman used by police as a decoy;
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  7. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Thanks for these impressive lists. I had expected quite some words, but not that many. This shows the importance of prefixes again in our languages. Amazing in fact. I am wondering if our Philipino, Chinese, ... friend will come up with similar things - but I suppose their languages work quite differently...
     
  8. Ёж! Senior Member

    Русский
    «Звать». «Я позвал его, мне надо было с ним поговорить». The same is for naming. That's it – no more meanings. No phones, seldom any memories. There is a list of perfective verbs that correspond to «звать», but they make only minor additions to the two meanings that it has ('to call by voice' and 'to name').
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  9. ancalimon Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  10. er targyn Senior Member

    Caqyr- (also to invite), ata- (to name).
     
  11. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I am sorry, butcould you transcribe [and translate] the Russian, E? I can decipher in part,but not sufficiently to be sure. The root is not the same as in Czech, or is it?

    @ et targyn: isthat Russian as well? It is not a transciption of E's, is it?

    @ancalimon: are you referring to the Russian word 'tsar'? What is the link then?
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  12. ancalimon Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    ata- means to elect, to assign in Turkish.
    "ad vermek" (to give name) means "to name"
    ada- means "devote".
     
  13. er targyn Senior Member

    ThomasK, I gave Kazakh forms, because the Russian ones were already given.
     
  14. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I am sorry, et Targyn, I had not noticed, please forgive me. But is 'ata' also some form of shouting? I suppose not...
     
  15. er targyn Senior Member

    No, ata- is a denominal verb from at "name". In Turkish "name" is ad. :)
    Just to add: at means in most Turkic languages also "horse", and ata - "(grand)father".
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  16. ancalimon Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    I guess we would need the true etymology of tsar first to see the link. But that's another subject. Something interrelated with Turkic dialects and history of those people which unfortunately is mostly unknown.

    When we look at the Starling link I gave;

    "yardım" in Turkish means "help", "call for help"
    "yargıç" in Turkish means judge.

    So all in all, there seems to be a relationship between calling and being a ruler... and "yar" and "çar".
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2013
  17. er targyn Senior Member

    Tsar' is from Latin Caesar, it's a fact.
     
  18. sakvaka

    sakvaka Moderoitsija

    Finnish:

    kutsua = call, invite

    Derivations:
    (1) kutsu = invitation; a call (by shouting); also: hätäkutsu 'an emergency call, a distress signal'
    (2) pl. kutsut = a party, an invitation (social gathering)
    (3) kutsumus = vocation, calling, eg. kutsumus papin tehtävään '~ to working as a priest'
    (4) pl. kutsunnat = call-up (for military service)
    (5) kutsuva = inviting, luring
     
  19. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    That seems quite plausible, and I find it confirmed at etymonline.org. I would love to believe Ancalimon's explanation though because it is attractive and not implausible as such - but I have suffered from wishful thinking before ;-(.
     
  20. Ёж! Senior Member

    Русский
    No it is not. The root is 'zov', but the verb omits the 'o'. By the way, the verb can mean 'to invite' as well, though no derivation from it makes a noun meaning 'invitation'; for invitations, we have the verb «приглашать» and the noun «приглашение», both of which have the root 'glas', meaning 'voice'.
     
  21. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Well, this link with 'voice' and Latin 'vox', 'voc' (-ation, -al, vowel) might be another interesting thread to develop. But not here now... ;-)
     
  22. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    It seems that the verb volati (= to call by voice, to phone, root vol-) exists only in the West Slavic languages.

    In Czech the verb zváti (звать in Russian, root zov-) means only 'to invite'. No connection with the phone neither in Russian nor in Czech.

    In Russian the verb that means 'to phone' is звонить (zvoniti in Czech, root zvon-) = to ring (a bell).

    Thus, 'to phone' is volati (= to call) in Czech and звонить (= to ring) in Russian. There are also some prefixed verbs like obvolati, обзвонить = to call/ring round.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  23. Ёж! Senior Member

    Русский
    At least, Russian does not have anything like this. :)
     
  24. mataripis Senior Member

    In Tagalog, the common word for "Call" is "Tawag". 1.) A phone call= tawag sa telepono. 2.) Call him.= tawagin siya. 3.)call them as an emergency signal.= Tawagin sila bilang hudyat ng babala. But To shout is "humiyaw"(shouting in mountain region or isolated places) and making a noise as shouting someone is "Sumigaw" is common in public places.
     
  25. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Not so sure I understand the last two though... Could you make those clearer?
     
  26. mataripis Senior Member

    The last two words 1.) Humiyaw and 2.) Sumigaw both mean "to shout". When the situation is too late and you need to shout someone, 1.) Humiyaw and 2.) Sumigaw can be used to call a person.
     
  27. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I think it's clear now. But then there are very few nouns based on tawag. 'My name is ThomasK' is not translated using 'to call', is it?
     
  28. mataripis Senior Member

    Ok. When no one is asking your name but you know they want to know your name, you may use "Tawag" in this case. Tomas ang tawag sa akin.= ( they) call me thomask.or to make it clearer use "bansag"(nickname title).= Bansag sa kin ay Tumas.
     
  29. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    Actually in hebrew we (shouldnt but) ask how are you called (instead of whats your name), to which we reply im called arielipi.
    the correct form is whats your name ma shimcha? my name is shmi arielipi.
     
  30. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Could you translate that "wrong" question (and transcribe it, indicating the call word) ? Thanks!
     
  31. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    איך קוראים לך? eich kor'im lecha (for male). kor'im is called, lit. how do they call you?
    קוראים לי kor'im li (both for male and female), they call me.
     
  32. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    But where is the likor? In the kor ?
     
  33. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    yes.
     
  34. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    In Portuguese chamar < L. clamare. This is also the verb used in "What's your name...? / My name is...", and more generally to say what someone/something is named/called.
    Chamada: roll call; chamada (telefónica): phone call; chamamento: (animal) calling. There's also the learned cognate clamar, "to cry out".
     
  35. 涼宮

    涼宮 Senior Member

    Sbaeneg/Castellano (Venezuela)
    Japanese:

    To call using your voice is 叫ぶ sakebu. When it's an animal that calls you use 鳴く naku. Both use the radical 口 kuchi (mouth). You can't use sakebu to mean ''phone call'' or ''name something'', those two use different verbs. So, you'd be asking about the words that use kuchi in them, right? If that's the case you have thousands of words as the kanji for mouth is too common for making words. For example: 古い furui (old), 号 gou (number)、史 shi (history)、可 ka (possible)、叶う kanau (something comes true)、吸う suu (to suck)、合う au (to match/suit)、台 dai (pedestal)、名 na (name),ishi (stone)、右 migi (right - opposite of left-), and a big etcetera.
     
  36. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I am quite surprised about the enormous frequency of mouth, whereas it is of course essential... I cannot imagine that many derivations of mouth in a Germanic language. Or are there more than I see right now?
     
  37. 涼宮

    涼宮 Senior Member

    Sbaeneg/Castellano (Venezuela)
    I doubt other languages have that many derivations :D. Since Japanese uses an ideographic system as its writing system it is natural to find thousands of words connected by the same radical when their meanings have nothing to do with each other. For instance, take the examples I gave above, I can't imagine any relationship between a stone, history and a pedestal with a mouth! Yet they're connected by the same word. The only way for this to be possible in other languages like English, French, Russian, etc. is that every single letter on its own carries a full concept, a whole meaning, just like every kanji and its composition do. In that way, for example, the article ''the'' would have 3 meanings at least if broken down t-h-e, as each letter has a full meaning.
     
  38. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    I am beginning to see the light! ;-)
     
  39. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    No, this root - volat (to call) is encountered only in Western Slavic languages, cf. Polish wołać - the same. According Rejzek's Český etymologický slovník, this root can relate to Latvian valoda - speech, language, probably onomatopoetic.
     
  40. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    AFAIK the occurrence of the pictogram 口 (= mouth) in many kanji (Chinese) characters has little in common with the Japanese/Chinese language itself. For example the above mentioned character 古 (= old, ancient) is a compound of the simple characters 十 (= ten) and 口 (= mouth). It can be interpreted as "retold by ten mouths" (it's a convenient mnemonic as well), however the Japanese/Chinese word "old" is not a derivation neither of "mouth" nor of "ten".
     
  41. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    how do they write on computers with such a character list language?
     
  42. 涼宮

    涼宮 Senior Member

    Sbaeneg/Castellano (Venezuela)
    That's very easy. Even though there are over 40k kanji/hanzi you use a romanization system, romaji for Japanese and pinyin for Mandarin or jyutping for Cantonese. So, for example, you put your Japanese keyboard on Windows 7, now you're using a Japanese keyboard. If you type k + a you get か (a syllable for the hiragana syllabary), whenever you write something and you press the spacebar a big list of all the kanjis for that syllable will show up. Kanji will show up automatically as you continously write, although the PC can't always guess the correct kanji for the right context, so you usually have to press the space key and open the list. The same goes for Mandarin, if you type 'li' all the hanzi for li will show up, you select the one you want, again, as you type your PC will use the context to properly input a hanzi, but sometimes there are mistakes since the PC isn't perfect at evaluating the context.

    For the Japanese keyboard there is also the option to change to kana mode, which means now every single key represents a whole kana (one syllable of the syllabaries), with that you can type way faster and only need to press the space key from time to time, the problems is that you need to learn the location of the keys. This is how a full JP keyboard looks like, the key next to Alt Gr allows you to switch between the two Japanese syllabaries, hiragana and katakana: http://files.myopera.com/sukekomashi-gaijin/blog/540px-Computer-keyboard-Japanese.svg.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  43. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    thought thats whats being done, but it still stands - a language that doesnt have a set list of chars will suffer greatly in writing.
     
  44. 涼宮

    涼宮 Senior Member

    Sbaeneg/Castellano (Venezuela)
    What do you mean? If you mean the most common/used kanji/hanzi they do have one. 2136 is the basic list for Japanese and 3k for Mandarin.
     
  45. arielipi Senior Member

    Israel
    Hebrew
    yes - thats a huge amount of constructive chars, look at english, you have 26; hebrew 22. how did you guys get tyo so many? (its unique to languages from the far east btw)
     
  46. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    Just by the way: it might be interesting if we could have some space at the site, where this kind of general and essential considerations about meaning and word structure (in Japanese and Chinese, but also elsewhere) could be found. I have been falling into this 'trap' (due to my own lack of insight, I admit) myself many times, due to the fact that I read ideogrammes/ kanji/... in the wrong way...
     
  47. bibax Senior Member

    Czech
    Simply speaking you have to know the phonetic value of the words you intend to write then you enter them in the computer by means of any convenient phonetic alphabet (it can be a problem even for an untrained Chinese) and the computer will convert them in the Chinese characters.

    A Chinese mechanical typewriter would be more interesting. ;)

    @Thomask:
    Here you can find all characters that contain the pictogram 口 kou "mouth". The corresponding Chinese words are not etymologically related, although some of them may be homonymous to the word that means "mouth" and some of them are connected to mouth merely by idea (e.g. yán = to speak).
     
  48. ThomasK Senior Member

    (near) Kortrijk, Belgium
    Belgium, Dutch
    That is quite impressive, Bibax. Thanks !
     
  49. Yondlivend Senior Member

    American English
    You can also type characters by the way they're written - either by stroke order or by shapes. There are different systems out there (like this one). It's important to have input methods not based on pronunciation because the same writing system is used by people who speak a variety of languages and with a variety of accents. Inputting by pronunciation requires a knowledge of the way it's pronounced in the standard language. Another problem with inputting by sound is that there can be many characters that correspond to the same pronunciations.

    English lost a couple of verbs which could be used in ways that "call" is used today: hote and clepe. The forms hight and yclept are slightly better known. Clepe actually still shows up in Merriam-Webster's dictionary, but it's listed as archaic.

    These had derivatives in Middle English, which I found in the MED:
    clēper, clēping
    hōtere, hōtestre, hōting,
     
  50. 涼宮

    涼宮 Senior Member

    Sbaeneg/Castellano (Venezuela)
    I guess it is. And even though 2136 is the basic list and could suffice to read a newspaper, in fact you need to know around 2300 or more if you intend to be pretty good at the language and read literature and all that. But that ''huge'' amount is relative. Many kanji/hanzi are simple and have few strokes, therefore they're easy to memorize, and it also depends on your memory. I find such amount to be easy because my memory allows me so, but others have many troubles even for memorizing the first 100 kanji. I don't know how so many characters came into existence, having over 40k is indeed just too much, most of them aren't used.
     

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