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translation from Turkish to Arabic avoids the original Arabic words

Discussion in 'العربية (Arabic)' started by TheRiLi, Jul 17, 2012.

  1. TheRiLi Junior Member

    Arabic - Some Countries
    why when Arabs translate from Turkish (sometimes) they don't use the same word ?!

    For example : Gurur , = it is the same in Arabic, غرور
    but Actually they translate it as : كبرياء

    another example is : Geberiyoru = أقبر / يقبر / يدخل القبر
    they translate it : أموت / يقتلني

    and also for "ne kadar" = إلى أي قدر / بأي قدر / كم مقدار
    they translate it : كم ؟

    but as you can see, the Turkish people talking Arabic "fluently" more than some Arabs :eek: , I mean, our language has changed and we lost many words and terms and meanings, but in Turkish language they still use it as normal as our dialects --'

    my question is : is really those Arab-origin-words has another meaning in Turkish ?! or it's just "lost in translation" ?
     
  2. TheRiLi Junior Member

    Arabic - Some Countries
    bitti = بتّ as (بتّ في الأمر / بتّ العلاقة)
    they translate it: إنتهى / إنتهت

    lazım = يلزم / لازم
    they translate it: يجب

    kırmızı = قرمزي
    they translate it: أحمر

    ayıp = عيب it means : منقصة / عار
    they translate it: عار / خزي

    ihanet = إهانة
    they translate it: خيانة

    ilacı = علاج it's from the root: ع ل ج it means: ما يعالج به
    they translate it: دواء

    heyecan = هيجان it's from the root: ه ي ج it means: الثوران / الغضب / التحرك والإضطراب
    they translate it : حماس / إثارة
    { ثُمَّ يَهِيجُ فَتَرَاهُ مُصْفَرًّا }

    Hisar = حصار it's from the root: ح ص ر = أحاط بـ ، طوّق ، سيّج and it means: سور القلعة أو المدينة وجمعها حصرٌ وأحصرةٌ
    they translate it : حصن / قلعة

    doğru = it's from Arabic I believe :/ emmm! I don't know what is the original word
    حديث : قَالَ لِأُمِّ قَيْسٍ : عَلامَ تَدْغَرْنَ أوْلادَكُنَّ بِهَذِهِ العُلُق
    حديث علىّ : لا قطع فى الدَّغرة

    aşk = عشق and it is a degree of love
    they translate it wrongly : حب because there is another term for love in Turkish: sevgi
     
  3. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    I guess the question is 'who are they?'
     
  4. TheRiLi Junior Member

    Arabic - Some Countries
    this means you agree with me that we have to use the same word when we translate from Turkish ?!
     
  5. إسكندراني

    إسكندراني Senior Member

    أرض الأنجل
    عربي (مصر)ـ | en (gb)
    Yes, unless the meaning has changed significantly, which is rarely the case.
     
  6. Finland Senior Member

    Finland
    finnois
    Hello!

    My humble opinion is that there is no reason why the word of the same etymological origin should be used. In fact, that would be the sign of a fairly amateurish translator. When words are borrowed, they rarely keep exactly the same semantic fields and dimensions as they had in the original languages. In addition, from the time the word has been borrowed (in your examples, hundreds of years ago), both the original and the borrower language will have evolved, each in its own direction. I'm sure you could easily find examples where a loan word from Arabic to Turkish has changed its meaning so completely that it would be impossible to use the same word when translating from Turkish to Arabic. Anyone who translates between, say, English and French knows this very well: looking too closely at cognates ends up having a text full of faux amis...

    Of course, this does not mean that one should *avoid* using the original word, if it is the one that best suits the context.

    HTH
    S
     
  7. shafaq Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    I didn't see any wrong in translation; and origin some of your given examples isn't Arabic .
     
  8. TheRiLi Junior Member

    Arabic - Some Countries
    the only word we can disagree on it, is : قرمزي.

    in Classic Arab dictionaries you will find that it is from a Persian origins :D

    and for all other words (except Dogru) are Classic Arabic :/

    some of them, even Arabs (of today) can't find their meanings :/
     
  9. shafaq Senior Member

    Istanbul
    Turkish
    Bitti (means إنتهى and) has nothing to do with بتّ .
    I don't think geber has someting to do with Arabic قبر which is still under use in Turkish as kabir(means grave).

    Dogru(means مستقيم and صحيح which) nothing to do with Arabic دغر .
    ihanet is إخانة(betrayal); but not إهانة(insult) .

    Adding to these; many borrowed Arabic words; due to various reasons; carry different meanings today, regarding its origins. Besides, some of them are fabricated by Turks using Arabic verbs; which means that perhaps they are never used in Arabic in that way like حصار .
    So, to me; all your given examples are correctly translated. As an example: Turkish ilac rarely used as Arabic origin علاج which has a broader meaning as all types of treatment cure, therapy; while its Turkish counterpart ilac; in most cases means just medicine.
     
  10. yields Junior Member

    Rabat, Morocco
    Arabic - Morocco
    Yep, I wanted to write something similar but was too lazy. In fact, Persian and hindi do the same thing with their arabic words, it doesn't necessary need to mean the same thing.
     
  11. boran ve sila New Member

    Arabic-English


    It is not lost in translation , these words they use are just alternatives , and it happens to be used more frequently than the base words.
    [...]
    I hope this benefits :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  12. suma Senior Member

    USA
    English, USA
    TheRiLi, simply put look at the many words that have entered the English language from French, however those same words are used differently in French. Does that suggest that the french people don't know their own language as well as English speakers? Hardly not.
     
  13. TheRiLi Junior Member

    Arabic - Some Countries
    LOL ,, you are right :/

    I was talking about "Arabic Dialects" Emmmm if you don't know ,, many people (a good %percentage) from Arab countries they are not good in Modern Standard Arabic, and they are NULL in Koranic Arabic and Old Arabic Literature ( the most correct form of Arabic). Many people here every day do Bizarre mistakes and a well known Clichy says "Save our Arabic Language!" (About 160,000 results) maybe you can find some people write it on Social Networks like "OMG! our helplessArabic goes bad every day!"

    those Turkish-Arabic-Origins words/terms are no longer used in our daily life (Dialects) and even in MSA they don't use them in their correct places, this is why I sarcastically said :

    Anyway :D I'm very pleased to read your comment :D
     
  14. Konanen

    Konanen Junior Member

    Germany, Stuttgart
    Turkish; German
    Just because of the إهانة and إخانة confusion, I will give one little addition:

    Turks do not differentiate between a lot of distinct Arabic phonemes, merging them together into one phoneme, e.g.:

    ه ,ح ,خ : All become ه (h)

    Even worse:

    ز ,ذ ,ض ,ظ : All become ز (z)

    (It should be noted, though, that the mergers are not always the same, causing confusions when trying to trace the words back.)

    Also, "doğru" is most certainly not of Arab origin and "bitti" neither is, the former deriving from Proto-Turkic *togır- ("straight"), and the latter from Proto-Turkic *büt- ("(to) end; (to) finish").
    And I am pretty sure, "gebermek" is of Turkic origin, too; as every loan-verb is either adjacent to the word etmek or yapmak (to do) or has a stem-extension with -le(ş)-, like:

    veda etmek (< وداع): "to bid farewell"
    vedalaşmak (-""-): "to say goodbye to one another"
    affetmek (or af etmek) (< عفا): "to forgive"
    zannetmek (or zan etmek) (< ظنّ): "to guess, to assume"

    And so forth...
     
  15. TheRiLi Junior Member

    Arabic - Some Countries
    @Konanen I can be mit Ihnen vereinbarten :D

    anyway ,, it's just so interesting when you find that Turkish and Arabic are so close :D I am so sorry if I made any mistakes in a domain where I am nothing in it,, sorry again :/
     

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