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  1. orca Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    Hola otra vez,

    i'm struggling with this sentence, possibly because i'm not sure if it sould be read as "trascendencia" alone or is it "de trascedencia" together, which has a different meaning (right?)
    here goes: (the problem is only with the first half, the second is just for context, do not translate it please, it's a waste of time)

    Los líderes verdaderos se manejan con valores que sustentan la visión de un trabajo con proyección de trascendencia, con el ansia de hacer una historia en el presente que resuelva los problemas del futuro y sirva de paradigma a las generaciones venideras


    i have the English translation but i'm not convinced. it sounds too evasive. But here it is:

    True leaders are driven by values that sustain their work with an air of transcendence.

    Gracias!!!
     
  2. GatoCheshire

    GatoCheshire Junior Member

    Alicante
    Castilian Spanish & Catalonian Valencian
    True leaders handle values that sustain a work vision with significant impact.
     
  3. FromPA

    FromPA Senior Member

    Philadelphia area
    USA English
    ...that sustain the vision of work of/having great importance.
     
  4. orca Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    Thank you. Is it me or is the sentence vague?
    what does it mean "to handle values"? and "work vision"?
    can someone please try to explain this in other words, so that I can get the meaning of the sentence?
    I would have thought the beginning of the sentence meant "the leaders conduct themselves" = behave
    with/ according to values that..... and here i'm stuck.
    thanks, and sorry for my lack of understanding.
     
  5. cirrus

    cirrus Senior Member

    Warwick
    UK English
    Handling values sounds odd to me as well. Mind you the original text sounds management text book material - language which is rarely blessed with coherence or a sense of proportion. How about something like true leaders have values which underpin their management?
     
  6. lagodeluna Senior Member

    Is it possible that transcendence refers transcending time? i.e. a vision which encompasses both present and future? Just an idea...
     
  7. FromPA

    FromPA Senior Member

    Philadelphia area
    USA English
    Yes, the sentence is vague - an aggregation of pompous concepts amounting to nothing :) - and I believe your original attempt was better than the alternative suggested to you. I also interpreted the the beginning as "the leaders conduct themselves," and I thought your non-literal translation of the idea was pretty good.
     
  8. GatoCheshire

    GatoCheshire Junior Member

    Alicante
    Castilian Spanish & Catalonian Valencian
    Hello :)

    Los líderes verdaderos se manejan con valores [...]

    "Manejarse con algo" has the meaning of "dealing with something" (but everyday, with experience). I thought "handle something" had that complete meaning (correct me please if I'm wrong), so that's why I said that.

    With "Work vision" I tried to say "idea or consideration about a work".



     
  9. MarlyK

    MarlyK Senior Member

    NYC
    Spanish - Venezuelan
    Orca, I agree with FromPA that the first half of your translation is closer to the original intent: "True leaders are driven by values". The original says "se manejan con valores," not "manejan valores" which would be "handle values". I don't think the original sentence is vague, although it is challenging to translate it into English. Maybe instead of "sustain a vision", "promote a vision".

    What he's saying is that it's the values/principles of a true leader that define and shape his vision and that, due to this vision, his work is geared toward having long lasting cultural impact. Now, whether those values are good, bad, or indifferent is neither here nor there. The reason I don't think it's vague is that he's making a distinction between a motive and values; for instance, I can have a self-serving motive and lead a team into serving my goals, but it's a lot harder to inspire others to work toward a vision just because it'll be good for me. On the other hand, a value is something that others may or may not share, ie, for the good of humanity, for the good of the homeland, to make great and useful products, etc., but if they do share it, they're much more likely to get on board and accept my ideas and thus work toward something that's long lasting.
     
  10. FromPA

    FromPA Senior Member

    Philadelphia area
    USA English
    I'm embarrassed to admit that I didn't read the second part of the sentence, which adds valuable context to the meaning and supports Lagodeluna's comment about the implied meaning of transcendent - the work of true leaders must be responsive both to the issues of the current generation and to those of future generations (it must transcend the current situation - maybe, "with transcendental importance").

    To "deal with" or "handle" something implies that you manage/confront/resolve something, making choices to achieve the best outcome. In our sentence, the object that is being "dealt with/handled" is "values," and the context that follows implies that the values in question are limited to those "good values" that true leaders use to sustain a vision of a work/endeavor that must be responsive to both current and future issues. If the values in question are "good values," then they are values that would be embraced by true leaders, not "dealt with/handled," which implies that there are problems with the values that need to be resolved. Maybe a better translation would be "they concern themselves with values" or "they deal in values." However, based on my interpretation of the context (which could be wrong), I still think that Orca's original attempt was a good one.
     
  11. FromPA

    FromPA Senior Member

    Philadelphia area
    USA English
    After reading the second part of the sentence, I agree that the sentence is not vague at all. Your phrase "long lasting cultural impact" expresses the meaning well. However, I do think that the author implies that the values are "good value" (from his perspective) since he attributes these (unspecified) values to "true leaders." Admittedly very subjective.
     
  12. MarlyK

    MarlyK Senior Member

    NYC
    Spanish - Venezuelan
    Yes, I do think you're right that he means "good values". This is definitely a good example of "traduttore, tradittore"; in other words, adhering to the original sentence structure in the translation will actually make it less clear.
     
  13. orca Senior Member

    Israel, Hebrew
    Guys, thank you so much for taking the trouble and diving deep into all this. Now i understand and will do my best to put in in Hebrew...
    beware, more to come!
    :)
     

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