1. The WordReference Forums have moved to new forum software. (Details)

-tu / -tuna / -tava

Discussion in 'Suomi (Finnish)' started by Gavril, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. Gavril Senior Member

    English, USA
    Päivää,

    In another thread, Määränpää mentioned a semantic distinction between -(t)tuna (the past impersonal participle suffix -(t)tu + the case suffix -na) and other impersonal participle forms. I can’t find the thread right now, so I’m starting a new one to try to narrow down the distinction that Määränpää talked about.

    How would you say that the following sentences differ in meaning?

    Pidän kylmänä tarjotusta keitosta.
    Pidän kylmänä tarjottavasta keitosta.
    Pidän keitosta kylmänä tarjottuna.

    Kiitoksia paljon
     
  2. Hakro

    Hakro Senior Member

    Helsinki, Finland
    Finnish - Finland
    I tried it again and again but I couldn't find any real difference between the sentences. There are just three different ways to express the same thing.
     
  3. Spongiformi Senior Member

    Finnish
    Jos pitäisi pakosta kaivaa jotakin sävyeroa, niin ensimmäinen ja kolmas viittaavat vahvemmin mihin tahansa keittoon, joka tarjoillaan kylmänä (eli ei pelkästään jo reseptissä kylmäksi tarkoitettu keitto, vaan myös alun perin kuuma keitto, jonka joku individualisti vain haluaa syödä jäähtyneenä). Sen sijaan keskimmäinen vaihtoehto mielestäni viittaa keittoon, joka on erityisesti tarkoitettu tarjottavaksi ainoastaan kylmänä.

    Mutta kenties tämä on vain henkilökohtainen tulkintani, ei mitään muuta.
     
  4. Hakro

    Hakro Senior Member

    Helsinki, Finland
    Finnish - Finland
    Erittäin hyvä tulkinta, Spongiformi.
     
  5. Määränpää

    Määränpää Senior Member

    Finnish
    I think this might be the thread you were trying to find: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2566869 :)

    The use of the essive case of the passive past participle of "cognitive" verbs (tutkittuna, laskettuna, tarkasteltuna, ymmärrettynä...) is discussed in VISK § 976. I don't think I've said anything about other verbs.
     
  6. Gavril Senior Member

    English, USA
    Hmm, that thread doesn't look like the one that I saw (and I have done some searching :)), but maybe my memory is failing me.

    The distinction that I recall being made between -tu and -tuna is that the latter form (-tuna) has more of a "habitual" connotation: thus, kylmänä tarjottuna would suggest (somewhat similarly to kylmänä tarjottava) that the soup tends to be served cold. Would this distinction be valid in some contexts, or am I misremembering?
     

Share This Page