Discussion in 'All Languages' started by Maroseika, Oct 11, 2009.

  1. Maroseika Moderator

    Languages use different ways to express the idea of repeating the action, but typically they use a Numeral + a word meaning some kind of a single action, the latter to coincide sometimes in the quite different languages (such as those marked blue below):

    English – two times
    German – zweimal (two signs)
    Dutch – tweemal (two signs)
    Sweden - två gånger (two passes)

    Irish - faoi dhó (two “unders” – two folds = twofold)

    Italian – due volte (two turnovers)

    Latin descendants < vĭces, vicissim – change, again < voyage, retour (cf. via), such as:
    Spanish – dos veses
    French - deux fois

    Slavic descendants < Old Slavic дъвашьды < two *sed (go) = two passes, such as:
    Russian - дважды
    Bulgarian– дваж
    Serbian - два̑жде
    Ukrainian - двічі

    Russian – два раза (two cuts)
    Czech – dva krat (two layers)

    Tajik – ду бор (two weights)
    Ossetian - дыууæ хаты (two voyages)

    Chuvash - йкӗ хут (two papers?)
    Hungarian – kétszer (two ?)

    Komi - кык пӧв (two halves or two boards)

    Kyrgyz – эки жолу (two ways)
    Kazakh – эки рет (two turns)
    Tatar – икке кат (two stores, layers)

    Mongolian – хоёр дахин (two “agains”)

    The question is: what other ways to express the idea of “twiceness” are used in the languages you know?
    Of course any corrections and supplements of my summary will be highly appreciated.
  2. Frank06

    Frank06 Senior Member

    Nederlands / Dutch (Belgium)
    First a minor correction: it's tweemaal, double a.
    Secondly, some etymologists connect maal with Middle Dutch mael (which indeed means sign, token), but the meaning of the word maal already changed its meaning before used in tweemaal. Hence the etymology tweemaal equals two signs is a bit anachronistic.

    Alternatives are twee keer, andermaal, tweewerf (?).


  3. sound shift Senior Member

    Derby (central England)
    English - England
    Sorry, Frank, but there's a further correction to be made: Spanish has "dos veces". Neem het mij niet kwalijk!
  4. sakvaka

    sakvaka Moderoitsija

    Finnish: kahdesti ("two-ly", the multiplicative form of kaksi) or kaksi kertaa (two times*).

    * Usually aika = time, but in this context a different word is used. I'm not sure about the etymology of kerta.
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  5. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    In Greek:
    Δύο φορές
    ðio fores
    lit. "two directions"
  6. Maroseika Moderator

    Does it mean two turnovers or two passes in 2 directions, i.e there and back?
  7. Maroseika Moderator

    I also wondered about its etymology. Could it be, say, a Dutch loan (cf. twee keer as mentioned above)?

    Do you know any links or etymological sources of Finnish?
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2009
  8. Maroseika Moderator

    Well, actually another interesting question tightly connected with the title one, is semantic of the idea of "time/maal" in different languages. Though the meaning of maal has changed, as you are writing, by the epoch of tweemaal appearance, but I'm sure it was still "felt" by the German natives in zweimal, for example, due to such wrods as malen - to paint. Was their in the past the similar verb in Dutch?
    Actually in the most languages mentioned below original meaning of the word "time" is easily readable, save of Slavic of course.
  9. Favara Senior Member

    Catalan - Southern Val.
    Dos cops = "Two hits"
    Dues vegades = "Two times"

    (Dos/dues could also be un parell de, meaning "a couple of")
  10. Maroseika Moderator

    What's the history of the word vegad (vegade?)? Is it a cognat of Spanish vec < Lat. voyage?
  11. phosphore Senior Member

    There is no such word in Serbian. There are dvaput and dva puta.
  12. Agró

    Agró Senior Member

    High Navarre
    Vegada (pl. vegades):
    Etim.: del llatí vg. *vĭcāta, mat. sign., derivat del clàssic vĭce, ‘torn’, ‘tanda’.
    (From Vulgar Latin *vĭcāta, same meaning, from Classical Latin vĭce, 'turn'.
  13. zăpadă

    zăpadă Senior Member

    Tunisia ...
    Limba Arabă
    Romanian : De două ori
  14. brtkrbzhnv

    brtkrbzhnv Member

    Swedish – Stockholm says it's from some Baltic language, inherited from Balto–Slavic according to Maroseika said 'twice' is dva krat in Czech, butát says it's dvakrát; and the interpretation 'two layers' also seems dubious considering the word apparently meant 'times' already in Balto–Slavic. And I don't think keer can be related to krát/kartas/kerta either, considering Balto–Slavic initial /k/ seems to correspond to Germanic /h/, at least according to
  15. tanp0p0 Member

    Hanoi, Vietnam
    In Vietnamese:

    Hai lần = "Two times"
  16. Maroseika Moderator

    What does it literally mean or meant in the past?
  17. Maroseika Moderator

    In fact I meant only etimological meaning. But I'm almost sure original sense (layer or maybe slice) should have been rather clear to the natives using and keeping use up to now such a word, for exapmle, as krýt - to cover (such as Polish -kroć > dwakroć - twofold).
    At least in other languages this stem gives: Lith. kar̃tą - layer, row, generation, Lat. kā̀rtа - layer, row, Lith. kertù, kir̃sti - to hack.

  18. Maroseika Moderator

    So, the same stem as in Italian and Spanish. Did you use some online etym. source of Catalan etymology?
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  19. tanp0p0 Member

    Hanoi, Vietnam
    Sorry but I don't really understand your question.

    "Hai lần" only means "two times". It doesn't have any other meaning.
    By the way, in Vietnamese, we don't use tenses like in English.
  20. amikama

    amikama sordomodo


    פעמיים - it's the word פעם (=time) in the dual form.
  21. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    φορά (pʰo'ra in ancient Greek, fo'ra in modern Greek, feminine noun), when used in singular, has the meaning of motion proper. When used in plural (fo'res), in order to express the idea of a repeatitive action, it has the meaning of motion proper+change of location.
  22. Maroseika Moderator

    Well, like was shown above, the very idea of the repetitive action is expressed in very different ways in the languages, but always figuratevely: as 2 voyages, 2 pieces, 2 ways, 2 loads, 2 folds, etc. Sometimes original meaning of this word is not recognizable even by the natives, but etomology allows to recall it.
    So my question is what metaphor expresses the idea of this word (times) in Vietnamese, i.e. what's the etymology of lần? Is it connected, for example, with lyan - Chinese measure of weight of precious metals (nowadays 31.2 g)?
  23. Maroseika Moderator

    Since φορεῖ means "carries", is it possible that δύο φορές originally meant "carrying a cargo 2 times" (there and back)?
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  24. Hakro

    Hakro Senior Member

    Helsinki, Finland
    Finnish - Finland
    I doubt about the Dutch connection.

    There are a couple of good books but in the Internet I've found only this one.
  25. Maroseika Moderator

    What is its literal or original sense? Could it mean "a step" (פַּעֲמָ)?
  26. Maroseika Moderator

    I found this word in Vasmer. Anyway, dvaput (two ways) is also very intersting, thanks.
  27. Maroseika Moderator

    What does mean ori literally or meant originally?
  28. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    Interesting, never have thought it that way. Yes, it could. But it also means tendency.
  29. kusurija

    kusurija Senior Member

    Lithuania, K. city
    Lithuania Czech
    In Czech: dvakrát - means two times (not 'two layers' )

    In Lithuanian: dukart - means two times.
    Also we can say: pora kartų (a pair of times)
    (Karta gyveno karalius... One time there lived a King...)
    (Mūsų karta - our generation)
  30. Maroseika Moderator

    Sorry, I meant φορεῖ.
  31. Maroseika Moderator

    I know of course krát means "time" now. I meant its etymological sense. Same like in Lithuanian it derivates from something like "a section" and definately relates to krátit. In Lith., according to Vasmer, it means (or meant?) not onlygeneration, but also a layer and a row.
  32. Outsider Senior Member

    Portuguese (Portugal)
    Or simply "two turns".

    In Portuguese it's duas vezes.
  33. apmoy70

    apmoy70 Senior Member

    You shouldn't edit your post, you were right, φορά it also meant in ancient Greek "the carrying", e.g «θυρώτοιν φορᾶς»: "payment for carrying"
  34. sakvaka

    sakvaka Moderoitsija

    I checked the good old etymology book by Kaisa Häkkinen (2004):

    - It has counterwords in all the language relatives of Finnish (gerde in Sami and so on).
    - The word stem is both Baltic (Old Prussian - kerda - "time") and Germanic (Old High German - herta - "alternation, variety, phase"). Agricola brought it to Standard Finnish.

    (see my earlier post on the origins of the Finnish language:
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2009
  35. amikama

    amikama sordomodo

    Yes, "a step" is another meaning of the word פַּעַם. I'm not sure which of the two meanings was the original one.
  36. Hutschi

    Hutschi Senior Member

    Dresden, Universum
    German, Germany
    In German there are two ways to express it:

    1. Zweimal (see also #1)
    2. Doppelt

    Which is preferred depends on context.

    More general: repeating an action:

    Erwas noch einmal machen - to do it once more
    Etwas wiederholen - to repeat it
    Etwas ein weiteres Mal machen - to do it one additional time
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
  37. kusurija

    kusurija Senior Member

    Lithuania, K. city
    Lithuania Czech
    In Japanese:
    再度 [saido] (redundant degree/time) or
    二回 [nikai] (two turns)
  38. jana.bo99

    jana.bo99 Senior Member

    Cro, Slo

    twice - dvaput; somebody says, dva put


    twice - dvakrat

    Twice is more than once: dvakrat je već kot enkrat.
  39. Nizo Senior Member


    dufoje (du = two, foj- = time, -e = adverbial ending)
  40. OneStroke Senior Member

    Hong Kong, China
    Chinese - Cantonese (HK)
    In Classical Chinese, we use the adverb 再 zài to indicate twice. In modern Chinese, this word means again and the old meaning is only preserved in fixed phrases like 一而再,再而三 (once, then twice, twice, then thrice).
  41. mataripis

    mataripis Senior Member

    In Tagalog it is "makalawang ulit or inulit".
  42. jana.bo99

    jana.bo99 Senior Member

    Cro, Slo
    Thank you all for kind translation of "twice"

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