Umbrian "Marte Horse" translated to Latin as "Marti Hodio"

Discussion in 'Etymology, History of languages and Linguistics (EHL)' started by Dhira Simha, Sep 8, 2012.

  1. Dhira Simha Senior Member

    UK
    Russian
    In Buck, C.A (A Grammar of Oscan and Umbrian: With a Collection of Inscriptions and a Glossary Ginn & Company, 1904) the Umbrian inscription on Tablet VIb (43) "Marte Horse" is translated to Latin as "Marti Hodio". I only know Lat. hodie "this day, today" but it, obviously, does not fit. In the glossary Buck gave it as "*Hodio dat. sing., name of a god". The star may mean that *Hodio was not attested. Can anybody explain what "Hodio" may mean and why Buck chose to replace "Horse" with it (apart from the fact that Marte Hodio features on Tablet I). What may be the meaning and/or origin of this mysterious "Horsa"?
    I attach the fragment here for convenience: Iguvine2.jpg
     
  2. Hamlet2508 Senior Member

    English
    The ceremony described on the Iguvine Tables I and IV does not stop after the sacrifices at the gates but rather continues at two sacred groves, one of them dedicated to Jove , where three calves and two ewes are to be sacrificed to Mars Hodius/Mars Inferus. As far as I know , Hodius was derived from Etruscan husrnana meaning juvenile although there has been some dispute about that.
    A few historians seem to agree that Maris , the Etruscan god of agriculture and fertility was later somehow absorbed into Roman war/agricultual god Mars. Some of Maris' best-known epithets are Mariś Halna, Mariś Husrnana (literally "Maris the Child") and Mariś Isminthians.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  3. Dhira Simha Senior Member

    UK
    Russian
    Thank you! I noted that Buck also mentions Huřie in Tablet Ib (2). I checked the text given by Francis W. Newman (The text of the Iguvine inscriptions London: Trubner and Co., 1864) and it appears there as Marti Hoŗie Iguvinian3.jpg . So we have a number of epithets of Mars/Marte Horse, Hoŗie, Hodius but, as I understand, we do not know the meaning of any of them. Do you remember any ref. of the discussion "Hodius was derived from Etruscan husrnana meaning juvenile although there has been some dispute about that"?. I have found so far Corssen. Ueber die formen und bedeutungen des namens Mars in den italischen dialekten Zeitschrift für vergleichende Sprachforschung auf dem Gebiete des Deutschen, Griechischen und Lateinischen, Vandenhoeck & Ruprecht (GmbH & Co. KG), 1853, 2, 1-35. I did not have time to read it yet. Do you think that Hodius can be related to Lat. odium? It would go well with Mars Inferus.
     
  4. Hamlet2508 Senior Member

    English
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  5. Dhira Simha Senior Member

    UK
    Russian
    Perfect! Thank you. I have already thought about Procession of the Ceri. I am reading a book by Fominitsyn in Russian. Interestingly, he discusses the particular affinity between Slavonic and Baltic ancient cults and the Umbro-Sabinian ones. There is a clear similarity between Mars Silvanus as a protector of cattle and the Slavonic Yarovit. Both were also war-gods. Closely related stands an obscure deity of the Western Slavs: Gennil whose epithet in Sorbian was "Honidlo" or "the cattle driver". Could it be that Marte Hodio may be similar to Slavonic Gennil Holidlo? Some rituals performed during Procession of the Ceri resemble those performed by Western Slavs during their spring festivals. They all revolve about fertility. As for Horsa, do you think it could be related to the Greek Ἄρης with the emphatic Ἄ written as /ho/? I shall check the sources you recommended.
     
  6. Dhira Simha Senior Member

    UK
    Russian
    Thank you again! I am reading Elevation and Procession of the Ceri at Gubbio. It is very informative.
     
  7. sotos Senior Member

    Greek
    He possibly understood Hodio as a cognate of Horse, through the Gr. v. hodeuo (οδεύω, to go, travel) and the Gr. hodio (something travelling, going). And besides, horse is a martial animal.
     
  8. berndf Moderator

    Geneva
    German (Germany)
    Do you seriously think so?:confused:
     
  9. Dhira Simha Senior Member

    UK
    Russian
    Thank you! I have not thought about Greek hodio. It is an interesting turn, however, as LilianaB you take it for granted that the Umbrian word equals to Germanic "horse" (animal) which is hard to imagine despite the complete phonetic affinity. Also the reason Buck chose to change the epithet of Marte from "horse" to "hodio" was because in an earlier text in a similar passage it already appeared as Marte Hodio so he, probably, chose not to increase uncertainties and be consistent. Finally, the translation by Buck was done into Latin so we can hardly justify using a Greek word.
     
  10. berndf Moderator

    Geneva
    German (Germany)
    Do you seriously think so?:confused: He was a professor of Indo-European comparative philology. He certainly knew that Germanic horse/Ross isn't a plausible cognate for the word horse in an ancient Italic language.
     
  11. LilianaB Senior Member

    US New York
    Lithuanian
    No, I am sorry, it may not be. I took Umbrian for a language related to Northumbrian (a dialect of Old English). In an Italic language it may not be related to a horse.
     
  12. Dhira Simha Senior Member

    UK
    Russian
    If anybody still follows this thread. Going through Bréal, M. Les tables Eugubines. Paris: F. Vieweg, 1875 I found on page 156 in his comments for this table:
    On page Breal158.jpg Breal treated these words as adjectives and translated them both as "infimo" (lowest, worst) and "infa" (low). Based on this, he then translated Marte Hodie/Horse as Marte Inferno. Although I had expressed the same idea in post 3 I am still not convinced. For one thing Breal does not bother to explain how Hudie became Horse or vice versa. Perhaps somebody can explain the transition /d/ to /rs/ in Umbrian. Is there some regular interchange of this kind in Italic dialects?
     

Share This Page