Discussion in 'Spanish-English Vocabulary / Vocabulario Español-Inglés' started by Clara Reyes, Feb 4, 2005.
Hola, alguien me podría ayudar??
Como se dice en inglés universitario no titulado??
Estoy tratando de ayudarte, pero la verdad acá en Argentina no utilizamos la expresión "no titulado". Podrías explicarme un poquito de qué se trata esa situación de ser 'no titulado'?
Por lo pronto dejo volar mi imaginación, y me figuro un universitario recién salidito de sus estudios y entrando como novato al mundo laboral, al que todavía no le han otorgado su título universitario o "degree".
Lo que nos llevaría a:
" a graduate without degree"
our fellow Eng. native experts nos corregirán en este aspecto, si es que puede existir algo así o no ¿?
Igual comentame qué significa realmente, para darte otra mano.
Hope it helps!
Estás en lo correcto "no titulado" es aquél que terminó uss estudios unviersitarios y no ha obtenido su título universitario.
Hay un problema para traducir esta frase al inglés: "...aquél que terminó sus estudios universitarios..." en EEUU recibe su título universitario.
O sea, que según las normas de este país, un no puede terminar los estudios sin cumplir con los requisitos para obtener el título.
If one has not yet completed the degree requirements, but has left the university, the person would be described as having completed "x" years of university. That person would NOT be considered to have finished university studies, as the possibility remains for completing the degree.
If the student has been away from the university for years, and is not going to return to finish, then we say that Fulano had three years of education at the college level.
Entonces sí que va a hacer díficil traducirlo con una palabra o frase corta.
Aquí en México, después de terminar los estudios unviersitarios debes obtener el título, si no se es un "unviersitario no titulado".
En el caso de que alguien no termine sus estudios universitarios se dice que tiene una "carrera trunca"
Given the context, nongraduate can also imply a university student who is-in-progress toward a university degree or has stopped studies before reachng graduation.
That's exactly what I meant when I asked Eng natives for help. Because it sounded to me as a paradox the minute I translated it into English.
The issue here is that a non-graduate would be perfect for other contexts, but doesn't apply in this case for what you said: It's a person or student who hasn't finished his/her studies.
But the case of "no titulado" [correct me again, if necessary, Funnydeal or Clara] refers to a "graduate" because the person has finished his/her studies, but is still in the middle of the process of obtaining the degree (the certificate itself).
What leads us to having to find a longer translation:
a graduate who has not obtained her/his degree yet, or
a graduate who is going through the process of obtaining the degree
[And by the way, for natives, pls: is there a name for that process??]
Hope it helps, Clara
So let's see If I understand. You passed all your exams, you have all the academic qualifications but you cannot prove this to your potential employer because your university administration has yet to "process" your qualifications and give you your graduate diploma?
In that case it is a graduate from a university whit chaotic administration and you need to set fire to the dean's car.
You couldn't possibly translate that ... mm .. Orphan graduate? Undocumented graduate? Graduate without grades?
I think that the person is a graduate, and the fact that in some countries the university takes so long to produce the proof of his graduation does not mean that there is an official way to say that in English. Perhaps someone living in Belfast or Cape Town has a similar situation and they may have an official way to describe such anomaly. (?)
I find it astonishing that someone can consider this a normal situation and give it a name.
No hugs and kisses, nor besitos y abrazos, nor gushing all over each other post after post because of concurring opinions. Simply, "I pat you on the back."
Ummmm... the name for the process of obtaining a degree is called "college".
I don't understand, what else must one do to obtain the degree after having successfully accomplished all of his studies? Is it lost in the mail or what?
How about "Graduate who got screwed over by his university."
I agree with Marc1. That cannot be considered a normal situation. Here in Spain, the country of "Vuelva usted mañana", it takes about two years since you've passed the last subject of your degree until you can frame your degree and hang it on the wall. BUT you are given a certificate you can show your would-be employers in the meantime (in fact that certificate is the proof that you've paid the taxes for the issue of your degree).
This thread reminds me of another expression I heard ages ago: undergraduate. If I'm not wrong, this term was used to designate a university student who hasn't finished his degree yet.
Given the context, I agree with your conclusion, peroooooooo
¡Mucho cuidado! Esto no es el inglés americano, sino argot o jerga de gobierno. Por lo tanto sería muy peligroso dar a entender a los no-nativos del inglés que así se dice.
The fact that a government agency chooses to say it this way is, at least for the present, no indication that anyone other than a bureaucrat would use the term.
Lo has captado perfectamente bien. Now, let me complicate things for you.
There is one set of circumstances in the U.S. in which one may have finished all required course work, and still not received a final degree:
El doctorado! In this course of study it is quite common for a student to take courses for two or three or more years, pass comprehensive exams, and still have two more hurdles to climb over: writing a thesis and defending it before the faculty.
For most PhD candidates, the process is as follows:
Take class for "X" years.
Finish class requirements.
Pass 'comprehensive' examinations.
Find a badly paid teaching job at a college or university.
Try to teach, continue research and write the thesis.
Here there is a 'fork in the road'--
Some people manage to do all of it, and submit the thesis and earn the degree.
Others, in order not to die of exhaustion or disillusionment, abandon the project and go to teach in a secondary school, or change careers completely.
I know of no name or term in English for a student in this phase of the process. We simply say that Fulano de Tal has finished course work and is writing a thesis.
What's the process in your countries?
My thought precisely.
Graduate from a screwed university...or...
In Spanish.... "Me recibí pero me cagó la universidad"
I por relación transitiva ... Graduado cagado...Screwed Graduate...
Let me try to explain the process to obtain a university title here in México:
When someone has finished his studies is called "graduated" , although he is a "no titulado".
The most common process to obtain the title is:
You have to select a topic of what you studied, that topic must be something new or controversial or something that should be changed, then you have to submit the topic for approval, then you have to write a book called "tesis", after that you have to do an oral exam with a jury (they always try to make those hours of the exam like the worst of your life), if you do all that well, you can obtain the title, then it comes the administration ugly thing ...
In this case, some students last some time to write that book, in my case I lasted 18 months , then the University lasted to give unto me the title in other 6 months and finally the government lasted 2 months more to give to me the "cédula" (official certification) so I was a graduated and no titulada for a while ...
The other options to obtain a title, it would depend on the University (some of them only have one way to do it, that I explained before)
Well you can study a Master degree two more years amd weirte the book and all that but you obtaine both titles, the unviersity title and the master title.
Others universities let students to study a special course called "Diplomado" and that's all ...
I hope what I said make sense
Undergraduate is used commonly in Australia to describe students (before graduation) and even courses.
A course can be an undergraduate course or a post graduate course.
There is no pejorative connotation it is just a descriptive word.
¡Hola Cuchu! Haven't you hear of the ABD. ABD = All But Dissertation. (It is not a degree but a status.)
I have known quite a few ABD's and always thought it was a purely humorous designation. But Gooling leads me to believe otherwise. I even found that it is used in the Carnegie Mellon University catalog.
where they speak of ABD Status.
Also Google gives over 2 million hits on All But Dissertation.
This is puzzling, to say the least. Someone asks a question that cannot be answered because of the lack of context, sees that an army of people tries to help but can't, due to insufficient information, and does not bother to write a couple of lines to clarify her question.
The real issue is, what did Clara mean?
Of course, since we are dealing with a new member, we understand that maybe she did not know how to follow up on this, or forgot her password, or something. Don't be afraid from us, Clara. We are all in the same ball game: we are all learning from each other.
Based on other people's replies, I would like to add a few other comments.
-"Undergraduate" is the first level of college studies after high school. It traditionally takes four years and the student earns an undergraduate degree called a "bachelor's degree". the student is usually called simple an "undergraduate student" (or "undergrad" for short)
-after that, the student can choose to attend "graduate school" to earn a "master's degree." the number of years this requires depends on the subject that the student is studying. the student here is called a "graduate student."
-then, the student can earn a "doctorate" becoming a doctor in his/her field. I believe that this is the highest degree available in most (if not all) fields.
-the students in all of these levels of study in the university can be called a "college student"
i hope this helps somewhat
Just to confuse things in Australia we have a separate level between the bachelor's degree and the master's degree, which is called 'Honours'. It is a one year course which you need to complete if you wish to commence a doctorate later on. During this time you normally need to write a thesis.
If you complete Honours, then you don't need to complete Masters to commence a Doctorate.
For example, my friend completed her (3 year) Bachelor of Psychology in 2004, in 2005 she completed Honours in Psychology and this year she has commenced her Doctorate in Psychology.
Also, what in the US you refer to as college, we refer to as university.
So the categories do vary a little depending on where you are from. Although I imagine the aussies are in a minority here so it's not really a big deal, just a little trivia for you all.
So what is the best way to say "for undergraduate students, the requirements for this class are...blah, blah, blah?"
I don't know well where this thread comes from, but you can simply say "estudiantes universitarios", a generalisation, as there is no such system of undergraduate plus postgraduate studies in, for instance, Spain right now. There will be a change in a couple of years, though, and you may have "estudiantes de grado" and "estudiantes de posgrado" by then.
It depends on the country you are talking about, so it's better if you specify that.
I am from the United States. I am trying to find out how to write a "syllabus" in Spanish for a class that has both graduate and undergraduate students (in the U.S. system). The graduate students will have more stringent requirements than the undergraduates...so I would like to say:
Requirements for undergraduate students:
Requirements for undergraduates:
Requirements for graduate students:
Thank you very much.
This "no titulado" issue has been discussed several times in the past on this forum. The problem is that this issue varies by country.
In the USA, there is no such thing as a college or universirty graduate who is not given a degree upon graduation. The degree is issued by default when you graduate. If you don't have a degree, it's because you didn't graduate.
Other countries do have this "no titulado", or graduated without a degree, situation. After graduation from institutions in other countries, there are several different processes for obtaining the degree, among which are the development of a thesis, written exams, and exams before a board of the institution. In some countries, even after being issued your degree by the institution, you must apply for a credential to a government agency before you can practice.
So, the situation for which you are seeking an English translation, must come from an English speaking country other than the USA. I am not familiar with which of these countries fall into this category.
Entonces quizá el equivalente más cercano son los estudiantes de "primer ciclo" y estudiantes "segundo ciclo" de una carrera de licenciatura (5 años).
The difference lies in that as you finish the "primer ciclo" you're not granted any qualification yet.
But maybe you should wait for anwers from your American Spanish-speaking neighbours.
I understand that the concept and systems are not the same in the Spanish-speaking countries, but my question is what is the "best way" to translate the phrases I posted in the immediately preceding post.... I'm puzzled as to why the translation must come from an English-speaking country; I want Spanish speakers (from various countries) who are in the class to understand it and feel comfortable with it.
(I didn't find anything convincing in the other threads, or in the WR dictionarly, so I decided to revive this one.)
Please forgive me if I have ruffled some feathers.
Business people in India have been known to put 'B.Sc. London (Failed)' on their calling cards after their name. It still looks impressive.
Separate names with a comma.