Urdu: aap mujh se paNgaa to le rahe haiN lekin yaad rakhiye

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Todd The Bod, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. Todd The Bod Senior Member

    Ngo hai ni doh
    English-Midwest
    "aap mujh se paNgaa to le rahe haiN lekin yaad rakhiye gaa, bahut pachhtaa'eN ge aap!"


    Howdy everyone. I've got everything except the part in bold. What is the meaning please?
     
  2. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Tod The Bod SaaHib, aap jaise dostoN hii kii vajh se is forum meN raunaq hai!

    The "gaa" in "rakhiye gaa" could be construed as imparting an extra dose of etiquette and emphasis.

    You are messing with me but please do remember, you will regret it very much!
     
  3. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    :thumbsup:
     
  4. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    There are actually 7 forms of command in Hindi I have observed:
    tu yaad rakh
    tum yaad rakho
    aap yaad rakhiye
    aap yaad rakhiye(ga) - this form is the most formal in Hindi and is rarely used. I beleive it was once reserved for situations like speaking to royalty. Now-a-days in Hindi
    it is used in formal occasions occasionally or sarcastically. (or like QP noted above)

    yaad rakheN - This is the subjunctive form. Some regard this as higher level of politeness than the 'iye' form since it is not technically a command but a possibility.
    yaad rakhenge - This is techincally the future, but I have seen it used in situations where a command is required on occasion.
    yaad rakhnaa - Used when the relation of another to one's self is left purposefully ambiguous OR the command is for a future date.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  5. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    ^ I have noticed that you've used the word Hindi in your post, underlined for emphasis. Why? I thought the thread is concerned with Urdu.
     
  6. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    I did not see that before. I thought it was the standard Hindi/Urdu thread. I did not want to speak on behalf of Urdu, having not explicitly started my Urdu studies yet.
     
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    But you would know, nevertheless, that in respect of imperatives, there would n't be any difference. So, the emphasis on Hindi was not really necessary. I hope the delay in your starting Urdu studies is minimal. I have no doubt whatsoever this would bring some pleasant surprises for you.
     
  8. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    As TS (may I call you that tonyspeed SaaHib?) said, the =gaa form is most obscure in Hindi, it means not used too much, if ever. So I think, QP SaaHib, there is a substantial difference between Urdu and Hindi in perceiving these forms. TS SaaHib (Mr. tonyspeed) mentioned royalty as an exception but to say that it is not used except in the royal circles is only applicable on the language he was speaking of: Hindi. In Urdu, since our language's descent has been a noble one, these forms are part of the normal language, even amongst friends. It is another grammatical form one has to learn if one is learning Urdu, not Hindi, so: kiijiyegaa.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  9. Todd The Bod Senior Member

    Ngo hai ni doh
    English-Midwest
    Qureshpor SaaHib, main aap ki myherbaani kaa bahut shuukar hun! But I forget what "raunaq" means, sorry. lol And thank you everyone for replying.
     
  10. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    You are welcome! I think you meant to write "shukr-guzaar" (grateful). I find "raunaq" a difficult word to translate. It can be "hustle and bustle" but I meant something like "life and exuberance".
     
  11. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Yes, I would also have trouble with translating the word "raunaq". In this Persian thread you translated it as 'activity':
    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2571187&highlight=raunaq. Shouldn't we have a thread for "raunaq" with a couple of literary and non-literary examples if its usage and possible translations?
     
  12. Wolverine9 Senior Member

    American English
    I don't think it's that obscure. It's used, but probably not as often as the other forms. It's a polite or emphatic form of speech but not restricted only to royalty, though royalty were likely addressed commonly in that manner. I think I've even heard it used in Bollywood movies. So there probably isn't much of a difference between Hindi and Urdu in this case. The frequency of its usage likely has more to do with the personal style of the speaker.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013
  13. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I would still consider it as a command, albeit it in the subjunctive mood, and not at a higher level of politeness.

    So, in this case your total should only come to 6 and not 7. Have you considered "yaad rakhiyo"?

    What would be the understood pronoun in front of "yaad rakhnaa"?


     
  14. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Thank you for your comment since it has contributed to greater clarity on this point; for I am not frequently exposed to anything Hindi I haven't yet come across this form in Hindi and I stand corrected on this point. If you can remember in which Bollywood film you heard it, It would be nice to have a listen because for some reasons, Bollywood movies don't seem representative for Hindi in this matter.
     
  15. Wolverine9 Senior Member

    American English
    I can't recall in which movies specifically but I'm pretty sure it's in films from the 1980s and earlier and not in the Hinglish dominated films of recent times.
     
  16. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Thanks, very likely indeed that the films were pre-1980s, I agree, but as I mentioned those films have little to say about Hindi, especially those older ones. This topic was discussed in the forum, if it is of interest for you.
     
  17. Todd The Bod Senior Member

    Ngo hai ni doh
    English-Midwest
    Thank you very much for the correction QP Saab and the explanation. I plan to see an Punjabi/Urdu speaker today so hopefully I can remember to ask him to make sure I'm pronouncing these words correctly. Thanks to you and to Mr Marrish also!
     
  18. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    shukrihah janaab, and please do come here more frequently, we'll be pleased to sort things out.
     
  19. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    That you may not know much of Hindi usage, is fine, but that you also draw astonishing conclusions based on your lack of knowledge is what surprises me. The "-gaa" form is well and alive in Hindi: of course, Urdu overdoes it (as Urdu does so everything in the realm of polite, with their saahibs, etc.), but then, certain Hindi-speaking regions too are not well behind in such matters with their -jii business - and such circles use the "-gaa" form a lot. In any case, the form is used throughout, including in satire by those who otherwise don't use it.

    "kyaa liijiyegaa?" is a common question, by the way, just for your knowledge.
     
  20. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    It is this very decorum and etiquette attached to my language and the tahziib associated with it that places certain constraints on me to not respond to your comments in such a way that would lead to my falling from such heights to the depths that you are at! So, to avoid this, I shall not say anything further.
     
  21. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    You misunderstood my comments. I said it is rarely used, not never used. I have heard it used several times (I myself have used it on occasion), but it is usually used only for certain situations as QP-saahib originally expressed. People do not usually say "kiijiegaa" as a normal part of everyday speech. I said it was once usually reserved for royalty (past not present), but the same is true for "aap". "aap" meant something akin "your highness" at one point in time long ago.

    I find such comments to be demeaning and uninformed indeed. Athough there does seem to be a little sense of snobbishness and classism rolled up in the origins of Urdu - as I have observed from some Urdu speakers.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  22. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I would agree that we don't need any kind of snobbishness but the fact remains. Urdu did come about as a result of the ruling class's intermingling with the local populace, whilst in being in situ in one general location or through a process of movement of armies in other locations, over a period of time. Little wonder that before the language became simply known as Urdu, it was called by the grand title of "zabaan-i-Urdu-i-mu3alaa". Urdu here refers to the Delhi "Shaahii Darbaar" and its environs, namely Shahjahanabad or Old Delhi. So, "Language of the Exalted Court". I suspect, this is what marrish SaaHib was hinting at.
     
  23. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    Agreed. Fighting words. Totally unnecessary and also inaccurate (nobleness is not limited by blood or tribe).
     
  24. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    Just a reminder that the name Urdu finds itself first used as the name of Urdu Bazar, a major market within the walls of Delhi. Urdu is the language of the market before it is coopted by the royalty in place of Persian.

    Urdu's origin is therefore the market, not the royalty. But is there anything demeaning in having one's origins in the market?
     
  25. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    [ ]..the ancestor of Urdu and Hindi was called by the following names: Hindi, Hindvi (13th-19thcentury); Dehlavi (13th-14th c.); Gujri (15th c.); Dakhani (15th-18th c.); Indostan (17th c.); Moors (18th c.); Rekhta (18th-19th c.); Hindustani (18th-20th c.). The term Urdu to refer to this language was first used, at least in existing written records, in 1780 by poet Ghulam Hamadani Mushafi (1750-1824). Before Mushafi, the term Zuban-e-Urdu-e-Mualla (the language of the Exalted City) was used for the Persianised language of the Mughal capitals Agra and Delhi. “ [The Murder of Linguistic Theory - II- Rahman]
     
  26. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Yes, in this case it is obvious I misunderstood them, however they were only an incentive to share my own comments. All the views expressed in my post were mine, I said it was hardly ever used. However, in response to greatbear's piece of information about Hindi I have already acknowledged in a later post that I accepted this information, so it doesn't seem to me there is any misunderstanding left, as far as the discussion on the whole is concerned.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2013
  27. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Going back to post 13, is the form "yaad rakhiyo" (kiijiyo/liijiyo etc) used in High, Medium or Low Hindi at all?
     
  28. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I realize it is a quotation so any changes are not desirable but perhaps it can be deemed valuable for those English users who do not have a good command of Urdu to note that the poets name is Mus_Hafii مصحفی, the cluster 'sh' being just a coincidence due to the English language but not meant to be pronounced as such.
     
  29. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    To begin with, I'm very glad that my words are taken heed of. It is a nice feeling that you commented on them. As you can see, the point of the noble descent of Urdu, and yes, QP SaaHib having a basic knowledge of the history has interpreted my words as I would present them. I am not keen on involving the noble roots of my family or of the language it is concerned with and there is no other instance in this forum of me having had done so but in this respect, I have just continued TS's mentioning of royalty in the context of using the gaa suffix. It is a mere historical story that the ones speaking Urdu used be the ones of the royalty, thus the form =gaa is contributed to those circles. I don't understand why my comment has formed a point of remorse. It is simply a fact, not only limited to the royalty but also to those poets who have been supported by the various Urdu speaking courts. Whether this fact can be used as a ''fighting word'' or a ''teaching word'' may remain a question we can discuss, but the facts remain facts, only their application can be negotiable.
     
  30. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    ^ The point is that what you are touting to be "facts" are themselves questionable. Facts are in history books, not in some scholar's quotation which can be easily disputed.
     

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