Urdu: aavishkaar, yantra

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Chhaatr, Apr 30, 2013.

  1. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    How would one say the following sentence in Urdu?

    "Maine ek naye yantr kaa aavishkaar kiyaa hai"

    Many thanks!
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
  2. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    ^ I don't think "yantr" can be translated to Urdu if one considers the plurality of meanings this single word conveys. But I think you mean "yantr" only in the sense of "instrument". Though "ozaar" is more "saadhan" rather than "yantr", I would go for "ozaar" in Urdu; for "invention", I have no idea.
     
  3. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Could you perhaps translate the sentence into English or provide links to definitions for the two Hindi words in Platts or any other dictionary that you want to translate?
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
  4. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    On second thought, I guess I know what aavishkaar karnaa means in Urdu. It is ijaad karnaa. What I wanted to know was "invention" and machine (yantr)
     
  5. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    For yantra, Alfaaz, see here. Chhatr probably means it in the specific sense of tool or instrument or machine.

    EDIT: Cross-posted with Chhatr.
     
  6. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Doesn't that mean "to innovate" rather?
     
  7. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    میں نے ایک نیا آلہ ایجاد کیا ہے - maiN ne aik nayaa aalah iijaad kiya hai
     
  8. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    ^ lekin Alfaaz saaHib gaaRii phir invent (iijaad kiyaa) pe aa kar ruk gayii. Invention ke liye kyaa lafz istemaal karooN?

    Hindi meN aavishkaar ka prayog invent or invention dono ke liye hotaa hai. Kyaa Urdu meN bhii aisaa hai?
     
  9. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    GB boss, no idea. MaiN Urdu meN bilkul paidal huuN. Thodaa bahut hii maaluum hai par bahut kuch maaluum Karne kii chah hai.
     
  10. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Jii haaN Chhaatr SaaHib. ایجاد iijaad اسم/ism (ya'ani noun) hai aur karnaa saath lagane se فعل/verb ban jaataa hai. Related definitions (you can click on the link to read through everything and for sample sentences):
    ایجاد :
    1. کسی نئی بات یا چیز کی تخلیق، اختراع۔
    1. kisi na'ii baat yaa cheez ki takhleeq, ixtiraa3
    3. نئی پیدا کی ہوئی چیز یا بات
    3. na'ii paidaa ki hu'ii cheez yaa baat
     
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Chhaatr bhaa'ii, gaaRii kahiiN nahiiN rukii! iijaad ke ma3nii "invention" hii to haiN! Platts ke mutaabiq "yantr" ke ma3nii mundarajah-i-zail haiN. Urdu meN jantar-mantar, jantarii jaise alfaaz haiN lekin jahaaN tak mujhe 3ilm hai, yantra musta3mal nahiiN.

    Alfaaz SaaHib ne "machine" ke liye "aalah" llikhaa hai. is ke 3ilaavah diigar ma3ne instrument/utensil/tool/apparatus/device/implement/appliance vaGhairah haiN.

    jaate jaate ek baat yaad rakhiye gaa. Urdu meN "ozaar" lafz naa-buud hai, shaayad kisii duusrii zabaan meN ho; haaN "auzaar" zaruur hai. "auzaar" kaa matlab hathiyaar bhii ho saktaa hai lekin "machine" nahiiN. aaxir meN, maiN aap ke jumle kaa tarjumah yuuN karuuN gaa.

    maiN ne ek na'ii mashiin iijaad kii hai

    (Urdu vaale "machine" ke liye "kal" kaa lafz bhii isti3maal karte haiN, lekin maiN ne to ise sirf ek muHaavare meN hii sunaa hai...uuNT re uuNT terii kaun sii kal siidhii! lekin lagtaa hai kih "kal-daar" (machine-made), "kal kaa aadamii" (robot), "kal kaa ghoRaa" (mechanical horse) jaise alfaaz bhii kabii raa'ij the)

    S ينتر यन्त्र yantra, vulg. yantr, yantar, s.m. See the pop. form jantra or jantar:—yantra-mantra, s.m.=jantar-mantar:—yantr-rāj, s.m. The astrolabe:—yantrālay(˚tra+āl˚), s.m. Any establishment where machines are made, sold, or worked; an engine-house; a printing-office, &c.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
  12. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    QP saaHib aap hameshaa har mauzuu par umeed se baDH kar tafsiil karte haiN. Yeh yaqiinan qaabile taariif hai. Bahut, Bahut shukriyah.
     
  13. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    agar aap ko naa-gavaar nah guzre..

    ...aap hameshah har mauzuu3 kii um(m)iid se baRh kar tafsiil pesh/bayaan karte haiN. yih (yeh..kuchh farq nahiiN paRtaa) yaqiinan qaabil-e-ta3riif hai...
     
  14. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    That's an interesting question greatbear! Could you perhaps explain what the difference between the two words would be according to you? This article seems to suggest that they are often (incorrectly) used synonymously, but in this dictionary entry invention is listed as a synonym. Meanwhile, I think that even though in Urdu iijaad could probably be used for both, اختراع - ixtiraa3 seems to be used more for innovation. Others could comment on this in more detail.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
  15. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    QP saaHib can I replace tafsiil with wajaahat? Will it be correct usage?
     
  16. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    jii haaN, kyoN nahiiN? lekin ek chhoTii sii tabdiilii ke saath..

    vazaaHat (jiim nahiiN balkih ze). vajaahat = dignity, importance; commanding personality.
     
  17. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    Well noted QP saaHib. Thanks a lot!
     
  18. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Thanks for the link to a wonderful article as well on the topic, Alfaaz: I, at least, do distinguish between the two (along the same lines as that of the article). Imagine that today I have a LED lighting in my store: that's innovation. The company hasn't invented LED lighting; LED was invented many years back. But to practically apply it, to exploit the uses of that invention in new, creative ways for different purposes (maybe to save costs or maximize profits or increase user convenience or anything else) is innovation. Innovation also does bring in something new often: how to apply an invented technology to something specific. That is why it is probably confused that much with "invention".

    I think Urdu users have to rethink using "iijaad" for both, as their old dictionaries won't give "innovation" anyway - the distinction between "invention" and "innovation" is a modern concept, even though both have always existed. In Hindi, "aavishkaar" can only be used for "invention", not "innovation" (I would have used in fact "iijaad karnaa" for innovation in Hindi if this thread hadn't come along). But since you mention there is already another word in use ("ixtiraa") for "innovation", I guess that's taken care of?
     
  19. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Well, one could use iijaad for both, but in Urdu we do make a distinction between iijaad = invention, ixtiraa3 = innovation and inkishaaf = discovery. It is better to keep these distinctions.

    Another word for innovation is bid3at! Although this has come to be used more commonly in a religious context, but its actual meaning is just that - innovation, and this is a very old usage.
     
  20. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    There is also this thread in the English forum, if anyone's interested.
    Edit: Thanks for the confirmation and yes that is another possibility, but didn't think it would be appropriate to include here due to its current usage (primarily in the context of religion).
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2013
  21. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Alfaaz SaaHib, we are those who create the usage together with others. And we are right. So be courageous!
     
  22. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    Today I came across iijaadaat which means invention or inventions?
     
  23. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    -aat is a plural marker, e.g khanDaraat, jangalaat, iijaadaat, kaaGhazaat, ma3luumaat, baaGhaat...

    Edit: I should have mentioned that please listen to "zindagii bhar nahiiN bhuule gii vuh barsaat kii raat", written by the well known Urdu poet and film song writer Sahir (SaaHir) Ludhiyanvi. You will hear many "-aat" words there. You will hopefully realise that all of them are not plural nouns formed with the "-aat" suffix but it will be a good excersie for you anyway to sift the singulars from the plurals!
     
    Last edited: May 1, 2013
  24. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    As a matter of interest, what are you reading these days? Or are these words from TV broadcasts?
     
  25. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    Nastaliq meN abhii bhii mushkilaat pesh aa rahi haiN to filhaal YouTube videos se hii kaam chalaayaa jaa rahaa hai janaab.
     
  26. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    agar aapko meraa puchhnaa buraa na lage to, what kind of YT videos? You might already know, but there are many videos with the Urdu lyrics/poetry/verses displayed completely on screen or as subtitles that could be helpful for learners to practice reading and recognizing the spelling of words.
     
  27. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    Buraa manne kii koii baat hii nahiiN hai Alfaaz saaHib. I'm basically watching anything in Urdu which catches my eye. These are mostly current affairs and comedy programs on Geo TV and the like. If you could point me to some of the videos you mentioned (with Urdu lyrics, verses etc) I'd be most grateful. Thanks!
     

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