Urdu: bar aks

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Chhaatr, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    "aapkii peshgoii to haqeeqat ke bar aks saabit huii"

    Is this usage of "bar aks" proper? If not, could you pls give a sample sentence using this word?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Yes, it is perfectly correct.

    aap kii pesh-go'ii to Haqiiqat ke bar 3aks saabit hu'ii.

    Your prediction proved to be contrary to the real situation/reality.

    Your prediction proved to be opposite of the real situation.
     
  3. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
  4. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    Marrish saahib mujhe aapkaa yeh "bar aks" lafz ke istemaal kaa andaaz qatan samajh nahiiN aayaa. Guzaarish hai ki is jumle kaa aNgrezii meN tarjumaa karne kii meherbaani kareN. Bahut shukriyaa!
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013
  5. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    ۔جناب، آپ کا حکم سر آنکھوں پہ، جواب دینے میں تأخیر کے لیے معذرت
    janaab, aap kaa Hukm sar aaNkhoN peh, javaab dene meN taa'xiir ke liye ma3Zirat
    .

    یہ لڑی اگر جالب نہ ثابت ہوئی بلکہ برعکس، بے سک دلچسب معلوم ہوئی ہو تو بے شک بتا دیجیے گا۔
    "If this thread has not proved to be attractive but rather - to the contrary - has appeared uninteresting to you, then please do let me know."

    I was trying to fit bar 3aks, which is the topic here, into my sentence. I typed bal-kih initially but my point was to cut-paste but bal-kih was not cut! As the result you have two words for your disposition, one being 'bal-kih' another 'bar 3aks'. In this context, they can be used interchangeably. However, looking back at it, both of them can stay there, for emphasis, and separated with a comma.

    Another point which this sentence illustrates is the usage of ''bar 3aks'' without ''ke''. The examples for ''ke bar 3aks'' have been already submitted.

    In other words, ''nah saabit hu'ii magar bar 3aks, ....''.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  6. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Now that marrish SaaHib has provided you with an explanation, please allow me to do a little "fine tuning" of a few words in your sentences above. This will hopefully allow you to make connections with the written language. I shall not bother with minor details.

    bar-3aks (bar, by the way is equivalent to "par" and "3aks" is literally "reflection")

    isti3maal (where 3 is the consonant 3ain)

    qat3an (Here -an is called "tanviin". Other such words are faur-an, masal-an etc)

    tarjamah

    mihr-baanii (mehr-baanii)

    And last but not least..

    shukriyah
     
  7. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I think it would be nice to aks, sorry, ask Chaatr SaaHib if he wishes that the forum works with him together on his Urdu, otherwise the watchdog is watching!

    Chhaatr jii, you may be surprised to see QP SaaHib's correction for ''translation'' but I saw before that it was originally 'tarjumaanii' (can mean ''explanation'') in your post, and it could be fine too! In this word, there is ''pesh'', meaning ''u'', so you can be reassured your Urdu is quite good!
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  8. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    marrish saahib hamaare is forum meN shirkat [shiraakat(?)] karne ke sirf do maqaasid haiN.

    awwal to Urdu ko behtar samajhne (likhne aur paDhne) ki qaabiliyat haasil karnaa aur duusraa jahaaN ban pade wahaaN contribute karnaa. to zaahir hai is hawaale se agar aap yaa QP saahib yaa phir koii aur urdu ke baare meN jaankaarii rakhnewaale dost hamaare transliteration meN corrections(?) kareNge to uske natiije [nataayaj(?)] yaqiinii taur pe [yaqiinan(?)] nuksaandeh ke bar 3aks hoNge. aisaa hamaaraa maannaa hai.

    (Aap "bar 3aks" ke is isti3maal se sehmat haiN?)
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013
  9. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    aadaab 3arz Chhaatr SaaHib,

    sab se pahle maiN aap kaa shukriyah adaa karnaa chaahuuN gaa, javaab dene kii zaHmat uThaane kaa. aap kii puxtah raa´e se waaqif ho kar nah sirf taskiin milii bal-kih jo aap ne Urdu meN javaab murattab karne kii kaavish kii hai use paRh kar lutf andoz bhii hu'aa huuN.

    chaleN to liijiye. aap kii 3ibaarat kii islaaH Haazir hai go is meN itnii ziyaadah gunjaa'ish nahiiN.

    mujhe yaqiin hai kih jaankaarii Urdu lafz nahiiN, Hindi hai. Ghaalib-an aap ma3luumaat kaa lafz isti3maal kar sakte haiN.

    shaayad aap ko ma3luum nahiiN hai kih is forum meN Urdu zabaan kaa jahaaN tak ta3alluq hai, ''read'' paRhnaa hii hotaa hai, paDhnaa nahiiN.
    aur pade kii bajaa'e paRe ban jaataa hai. is kii vajh yih hai kih Urdu rasmu-lxatt meN Harf-e-Re ko ڑ likhaa jaataa hai jo kih Harf-e-re ر par mabnii hai.

    mukarramii, jii haaN, maiN aap ke ''bar 3aks'' ke isti3maal se muttafiq huuN (sehmat/sahmat Urdu meN raa'ij nahiiN hai, mujhe lagtaa hai is ke Urdu meN ma3ne ''sahme hu'e'' ke hoN ge).

    donoN natiije aur nataa'ij, yaqiinii taur peh aur yaqiin-an durust haiN.

    mu'adda
    baanah guzaarish hai kih jo alfaaz aap ne aNgrezii zabaan meN chhoRe the, un ke mauzuu3 par agar ko'ii puraanii laRii yahaaN maujuud nah ho, na'ii laRiyaaN shuruu3 kar liijiye gaa. bahut dil chasp hoN gii!

    Edit: maiN ek baat kaa zikr karnaa bhuul gayaa thaa, ''nuksaandeh'' meN kaaf kii bajaa'e qaaf hotaa hai. nuqsaan-dih (deh). yaad rakhiye gaa ''deh'' kaa ''e'' halkaa hotaa hai - نـُقــصــانــدِہ.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  10. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Just in case anyone follows the Urdu script, there is an unforgivable typo in my sentence which I didn't notice when I posted it.

    It should be:

    یہ لڑی اگر جالب نہ ثابت ہوئی بلکہ برعکس، بے سک غیر دل چسپ معلوم ہوئی ہو تو بے شک بتا دیجیے گا۔
     
  11. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    QP SaaHib in the light of your above explanation and the recent thread by Daffodil100 tiltled "Persian: Lotfan (in farsi script)" I understand that tanvin is a sign which is placed over Alif at the end of a word.

    For eg qatan = Qaaf + te + tanvin (i.e Alif with an "s" mark on the top).
    Fauran = fe + re + tanvin (i.e Alif with an "s" mark on the top).
    Masalan = meem + se + laam + tanvin (i.e Alif with an "s" mark on the top).

    Pls do correct me if I'm wrong.

    Thanks!
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2013
  12. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Urdu Lughat:
    {naHw} kisi lafz ke aaxir meiN do zabar yaa do zer yaa do pesh lagaa kar nuun saakin ki aawaaz nikaalnaa, nuun saakin ki woh 3alaamat jo kisi lafz ke aaxir meiN ho, jaise: waqt-an fawaqt-an , daf3at-an waghairah meiN-

    Platts:
    Tanween is originally from Arabic, as you might have read in the other thread.
    • In Urdu, you will predominantly find the دو زبر/ فتحہ do zabar/fatHah being used, while the others might also be used in direct expressions from Arabic (often from the Quran or related to other religious context).
      • An example of this would be part of ayah 18 from Surah Baqarah: صُمٌّۢ بُكمٌ عُمىٌ - Summ-un, bukm-un, 3umy-un - Deaf, dumb, blind.
        • This expression seems to be used often in Urdu and not necessarily in religious context. So you might come across sentences (especially in political shows/programs) such as:
          • شاید حکمران صم بکم عمی بن گئے ہیں جب کہ مفلس عوام تکلیف میں مبتلا ہیں - shaayad Hukmraan Summun bukmun 3umyun ban ga'e haiN jab-keh muflis 3awaam takleef meiN mubtilaa haiN - Perhaps leaders have become deaf, dumb, blind, while the public faces problems.
    do zabar/fatHah-tain: اً : alif do-zabar = an
    do zer/kasrah-tain: اٍ : alif do-zer = in
    do pesh/dammah-tain: اٌ : alif do-pesh = un

    This website might be helpful (under Double Short Vowels). Also, this thread seems to be related to this topic.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2013

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