Urdu: dar, darvaazah

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by urdustan, Jul 8, 2013.

  1. urdustan Junior Member

    Urdu & English
    Greetings friends,

    Both words mean door, but what do you think are the differences? I apologize if this has already been discussed.

    Thank you.
     
  2. ValerioPak

    ValerioPak Senior Member

    Bergamo
    Italian
    Hi, this is just my opinion and I am not a native speaker, so take it for what it is. From what I have read so far, although both dar and darvaazah derive from Farsi, dar would seem to me more refined and literary, whereas darvaazah is normally used in speaking. In Farsi, though, they may be just synonyms. Hope it helps. dar is also a useful Farsi prefix and preposition, meaning "in", e.g. dar-aamad = income or imports (lit.: in-coming). Hope it helps. Val
     
  3. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    As for as Urdu is concerned, I would say that "dar" is used mainly in poetry whereas "darvaazah"is the everyday word for "door". My understanding is that in reality "darvaazah" actually means/meant "gate". In old cities like Lahore and Dehli, you will find names of city gates named e.g Lahori-darvaazah, Kashmiri-darvaazah, Akbari-darvaazah etc. This meaning of darvaazah is still in vogue in Persian.

    Edit: I have noticed that Valeriopak and I have cross posted. (I started my post and had to go to the local station and continued it on my return!:))
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2013
  4. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    dar and darwāza are both Persian, of course; dar is more common for “door” and darwāza for “gate”. By the way: the noun dar and the preposition dar are homonyms, but they are not etymologically related. The noun comes from Iranian *dwar- (cognate with English door); the preposition comes from *antara (cognate with Latin inter).
     
  5. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Shortened form of "andar"? It is "andar" that one finds in older Classical literature and not "dar".
     
  6. Treaty Senior Member

    Australia
    Persian
    Actually, you can easily find dar in oldest extant New Persian texts (e.g., Bal'ami and Roudaki).
     
  7. fdb Senior Member

    Cambridge, UK
    French (France)
    In early New Persian both dar and andar are very common, the latter especially in the Shahnama.
     
  8. gagun Senior Member

    TS,india
    Telugu-TS, Deccani-TS
    can dar also mean "in/inside" like we have a word dargor=actual meaning is "to go into the tomb" which is synonym of "jahannam me'in jaana".
    and i found some words start with dar are
    daraana,darkaar,darkinaar
     
  9. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Yes, it does.

    dar gor = In the grave

    dar-aanaa = to bring in

    dar kinaar = on one side (aside)

    dar-kaar = (kaam meN)..necessary/required.
     
  10. Wolverine9 Senior Member

    American English
    Which is more common in current Persian usage?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2013
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    From what I remember in my reading of a section of of Bal3amii, "andar" was the norm.
     
  12. ValerioPak

    ValerioPak Senior Member

    Bergamo
    Italian
    Thank you, very interesting and absolutely right! I have indeed checked the etymology on Platts' Urdu Classical Hindi and English dictionary, which I had not consulted before. I noticed other dictionaries (e.g. Ferozesons) tend to put dar noun and dar preposition under the same entry.

    Val
     
  13. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    In Urdu the use of both در dar (noun) and دروازہ darwaazah can vary but in our speech generally a dar is any portal / doorway without a پٹ paT ("flap" ) used to close it while a darwaazah has a paT or two. But then the famous ruumii darwaazah, for example, has no paT and a بارہ دری baarah-darii is a structure having several doors / archways (dar) which may or may not have a پٹ paT!
     
  14. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Interestingly, andar is well-attested in Pahlavi / Middle Persian to mean what is now dar (= in), and made many compounds.
     

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