Urdu: hakaazah - similarly

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by lcfatima, Dec 24, 2009.

  1. lcfatima Senior Member

    In a teapot
    English USA
    How can I use the adverb hakaazah, meaning "similarly"? Please provide simple example sentences for illustration.
  2. saarah7 Senior Member

    If ''hakazza'' is a word, believe me it's not in use, at least in Pakistan. I think either it's Farsi or Arabic. May be faylasoof could provide you with a better answer.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2009
  3. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

    Yes. I agree with saarah, don't use haakadhaa this is pure Arabic.... Never seen / read it (maybe once or twice in heavily arabicized religious writing)....
  4. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    I can't confirm or gainsay the above comments on hakaazah. I do know the word <yaksā.n> means similar, so perhaps there is a derivative word from this?
  5. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Fatima, the use of haakazaa هكذا would be considered highly formal or just stilted Urdu. It is extremely rare I wouldn't recommend its use. Much better to say اسی طرح isii TaraH etc. Depends what you are trying to say.

    PG, yaksā.n derivative could also be used, depending as on what the context is, as: yaksā.n Taur par یكساں طور پر .
  6. BP. Senior Member

    You could find such words in formal writing, like in law. Ever had a police report written. Its replete with things like:
    میرا ذہن گم ہو گیا ھے۔ براے مھربانی جسے ملے وہ درجِ ذیل پتے پر ارسال کرے۔ حاملِ ھٰذا کو کما حقہ انعام سے نوازہ جاے گا۔
  7. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    True enough حاملِ ھٰذا etc. are found in these types of formal writing but still they are hardly read by the general public. Unless it unluckily affects you! I'm not sure if I'd want to use it in general speech.
    There are also works of older writers that use هكذا etc. but again it is highly formal writing. I found this sometime back in a book of philosophy in Urdu - highly formal writing dealing with philosophical arguments. I can try looking for it if there is a real need.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2009
  8. saarah7 Senior Member

    haaza and haakazaa are two different words.aren't they?
  9. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

    Yes, these are two different words.

    haakadhaa = hadhaa (this, masculine, demonstrative pronoun, ismul ishaarah) + the preposition (Harf jarr) ka (like, such as).

    Although it should logically be kahaadhaa, it actually becomes haakadhaa... The reason is that it is an old form which takes into account the real components of haadhaa... in haadhaa, dhaa is the real demonstrative pronoun, while haa is an exclamative syllable to attract the attention of listeners and which is just here for emphasis. (in the same way you have haahuna and huna meaning both here, the first being more emphatic)... (you also have : haa huwa dhaa : here he / it is).

    In Urdu, the most common expression using haadhaa is lihaadhaa (lihaaza) (therefore)
  10. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Cilqui, the actual derivation of haakazaa ھٰكذا is as follows:

    You are quite right that “haa is an exclamative syllable to attract the attention of listeners and which is just here for emphasis” and can associate with ذا zaa to give haazaa ھٰذا.

    But the route for haakazaa ھٰكذ is a little different.

    ذا zaa is, as you know, a simple demonstrative in Arabic and means this, this one, etc.

    ذا zaa can form derivatives by associating with ب , ل and ک to give بِذا bizaa (= by this means, thereby), لِذا lizaa (= therefore) and کَذا kazaa (= so, thus, in this manner).

    Starting with:
    ك ka (= like) + ذا zaa = كذا kazaa = thus, like that, in this manner.

    We then have:
    ھا haa has an intensifying force and can form a prefix with كذا kazaa : ھا + كذا = ھٰكذا haakazaa = thus, like that, in this manner.

    ھٰكذا haakazaa is more intensive than كذا kazaa.

    ھٰكذا haakazaa / كذا kazaa and لِذا lizaa are used in highly formal written Urdu.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2009
  11. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

    The point here I wanted to make is that li and ka are words of the same kind, prepositions (7arf jarr) and they are treated differently in this case :

    li + haadha = lihaadhaa (li goes before the whole word)
    ka + haadhaa = haakadhaa (ka seems to break it down to its orginal meaning).

    So Urdu speakers without knowledge of Arabic don't usually recognize haadhaa in haakadhaa although they are aware of this word because of the expressions above mentioned (7aamil-e haaza and lihaaza). Another thing that surprises Urdu speakers is the first vowel is a long a (alif)... which is normally not written at all in Arabic but which in Urdu is usually shown by a khaRaa zabar (as the short alif written on top of the letter is called... to my knowledge... by the way.. is there any other way to call it???)

    This thread and the other one on elect shows how even a rudimentary knowledge of Arabic grammar helps understanding Urdu quite a lot.
  12. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Yes, I understand the point you were trying to make about ka and li. What I am saying is that we need to begin with ذا zaa :
    If you start with ذا zaa, the rest follows like so (as you know):
    ذا zaa +ھا haa = ھٰذا

    ھٰذاhaazaa + ل li = لھٰذا lihaazaa

    ذا zaa + ك ka = كذا kazaa

    kazaa + ها haa = ھٰكذا haakazaa

    In summary, for haakazaa : ذا zaa -> كذا kazaa -> ھٰكذا haakazaa.

    This makes it simpler, I feel.

    The khaRaa zabar is an alif. We always refer to it as so. Orthographic convention dictates that it be always written over the ھ and never by a ligature.

    Oh yes! Some Arabic, and Persian grammar too, go a long way to help understand Urdu. In fact all “decent” Urdu grammars have sections on these.
  13. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

  14. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    This calls for looking it up! There are of course alif mamdoodah and alif maqsoorah, so there must be a technical term for this too.

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