Urdu, Hindi: maTTii or miTTii?

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Qureshpor, Feb 12, 2013.

  1. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    miTTii is yet another word I have associated with Punjabi and maTTii with Urdu. It seems that at least in Urdu both are used but in Hindi (I think) miTTii is the norm. Do you say "miTTii" or "maTTii" in your daily speech. Can you quote any idioms, proverbs, couplets with either of the two forms incorporated in them?
     
  2. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Both are surely used in Hindi, as well as "maaTii" (e.g., in the kind of sentences like "yeh maaTii (meraa) lahuu maaNge"), but "miTTii" is the norm. "maTTii" is the least common in Hindi, behind "miTTii" and "maaTii".
     
  3. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    چاند میری زمیں ، پھول میرا وطن
    میرے کھیتوں کی مٹی میں لعل یمن
    ساقی جاوید

    chaand meri zameen, phool mera watan
    mere khetoN ki maTTi mein la'l-e-yaman
    Saaqi Jawed

    وطن کی مٹی گواہ رہنا ، گواہ رہنا
    وطن کی مٹی عظیم ہے تو ، عظیم تر ہم بنا رہے ہیں
    مسرور انور

    watan ki miTTi guwah rehna, guwah rehna
    watan ki miTTi a'zeem hai tu, a'zeem-tar hum bana rahe haiN
    Masruur Anwar

    اے انساں زور لگا لے تو ، میں دیکھوں کہاں تک جائے گا
    دربار سجے گا جب اسکا ، جب اسکا وعدہ سچ ہو گا
    سب کچھ فنا ہو جائے گا ، سب مٹی میں مل جائے گا
    مٹی کا آدم ہے ، مٹی کے بندے ، مٹی کا ہے یہ سارا جہاں
    کھو جائے گا سب مٹی میں لیکن تیرے نوری جلوے رہیں گے یہاں
    کرن سلطان...?
    ae insaaN zor laga le tu, meiN dekhoN kahaaN tak jaa'e gaa
    darbaar sajje ga jab uska, jab uskaa wa'dah sach ho gaa
    sub kuchh fanaa ho jaa'e gaa, sab maTTi meiN mil jaa'e gaa
    maTTi kaa Aadam, maTTi ke bande, maTTi ka hai yeh saaraa jahaaN
    kho jaa'e gaa sab maTTi mein lekin, tere noori jilwe raheN ge yahaaN
    Kiran Sultaan...?


    نہیں ہے نا امید اقبال اپنی کشت ویراں سے
    ذرا نم ہو تو یہ مٹی بہت زرخیز ہے ساقی
    naheeN hai naa-umeed iqbaal apni kisht-e-weeraaN se
    zara nam ho to yeh maTTi/miTTi bahut zar-khez hai saaqi
    Iqbal

    کس لئے کیجئے کسی گم گشتہ جنّت کی تلاش
    جب کہ مٹی کے کھلونوں سے بہل جاتے ہیں لوگ
    دیکھتے ہی دیکھتے کتنے بدل جاتے ہیں لوگ
    ہر قدم پر نت نیے سانچے میں ڈھل جاتے ہیں لوگ
    حمایت علی شاعر
    kis liye kijiye kisi gum gashtah jannat ki talaash
    jab keh miTTi ke khilonoN se bahal jaate haiN log
    dekhte hi dekhte, kitne badal jaate haiN log
    har qadam par nit naye saanche meiN dhal jaate hain log
    Himaayat Ali Shaa'ir

    Punjabi:
    bol miTTi de baweya, tere dukhhaN ne maar muka leya - Sultaan Bahu

    miTTi paa'o, te roTi-shoTi khaa'o!
     
  4. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    QP SaaHib, it is paradoxical indeed because I've imagined just the opposite, i.e.

    maTTii being Punjabi and
    miTTii Urdu (!)

    This is how I say it in my daily speech.

    In this recent thread ''Pronunciation of beizzati'' Faylasoof SaaHib shared a funny sentence:

    The proper expression shall serve here as an example of an idiom relevant to the topic here, as per QP SaaHib's request:

    us ne merii miTTii xaraab kar dii = us ne merii be-3izzatii/ruswaa'ii kii

    Here is Zauq:

    کوچہ میں آ پڑے تھے ترے خاک ہو کے ہم
    یاں تو صبا نے اور بھی مٹی خراب کی
    kuuchah meN aa paRe the tire xaak ho ke ham
    yaaN to sabaa ne aur bhii miTTii xaraab kii


    Naasix:

    بنتا جو جام بادہ تو ہوتا مَیں رند شاد
    مسجد بنا کے کیوں مری مٹی خراب کی
    bantaa jo jaam-e-baadah to hotaa maiN rind-e-shaad
    masjid banaa ke kyoN mirii miTTii xaraab kii

    Amaanat:

    در در پھِرایا خاک بسر عِشقِ یار نے
    اِس کوچہ گردی نے میری مٹی خراب کی
    dar dar phiraayaa xaak ba-sar 3ishq-e-yaar ne
    is kuuchah-gardii ne merii miTTii xaraab kii

    *(I've taken the liberty to determine the word as miTTii instead of maTTii).
     
  5. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you everyone for responding to this thread and providing lots of examples. My Kitaabistaan;s 20th Century Dictionary gives "maTTii" as first choice and then miTTii. We have discussed "maTTii/miTTii paliid karnaa" in another thread.

    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1658255

    Here is one example of its usage.

    گارا بنا رہا تھا جو مزدور راہ میں
    پوچھو نہ بے تکلفی اُس مہربان کی
    نالی کا اُس میں آبِ نجس بھی ملا گیا
    مِٹی پلید کر گیا مالک مکان کی
    انور مسعود

    gaaraa banaa rahaa thaa jo mazduur raah meN
    puuchho nah be-takallufii us mihr-baan kii
    naalii kaa us meN aab-i-najis milaa gayaa
    miTTii paliid kar gayaa maalik makaan kii!!

    Anwar Mas'ud
     
  6. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    The Farhang says: miTTii, maTTii (3awaam) and maaTii (gaNwaar)! What is the view of NuurulluGhaat?
     
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ yih lafz bi_lkasar aur bi_lfatH donoN tarH musta3mal hai lekin bi_lkasr ziyaadah fasiiH samjhaa jaataa hai. (Nuuru_lluGhaat)

    This word is used both with an "i" vowel as well as an "a" vowel but it is considered more chaste with the "i".
     
  8. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I perceive that both the lexicons say the same thing although using different words. As for me I'm reassured by
    their authority that I transcribed the couplets in the right manner.
     
  9. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    "maaTii" conveys the same flavour as, for example, "mohe" for "mujhe" does: a rustic, literary flavour. For these old dictionaries, it might have been "gaNwaar", but in modern times it's a word that has to be rarely and properly used to give the required beauty.
     
  10. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    ^ This is a sensible comment with which I tend to agree.
     
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    The word "gaNvaar" has its base meaning as a villager, a countryman (countrywoman as well of course) but there are indeed negative meanings attached to this word as well. For this reason I am in full agreement that this word (gaNvaar) ought not be used by dictionary compilers to describe such words as "maaTii". "maaTii" indeed conveys a rustic, salt of the earth flavour and is no way "inferior" to "miTTii" or "maTTii".

    Platts simply gives it as a synonym for miTTii and maTTii. In addition, it provides a verb "maaTii phaaknaa" (to be consumed with envy/to be envious of).

    Here is the word "maaTii" in a famous Ghazal which begins with the words "Insha Jii uTho, ab kuuch karo" by Ibn-i-Insha (1927-1978). It is available on Youtube and well worth a listen. The singer is the late Ustaad Amanat Ali Khan. The Ghazal is pretty long but he sings only a few couplets.

    Inshaa Jii uTho ab kuuch karo, is shahr meN jii ko lagaana kyaa
    vahshii ko sukuuN se kyaa matlab, jogii kaa nagar meN Thikaanaa kyaa

    us ko bhii jalaa, dukhte hu’e man, ik shu3lah laal bhabuukaa ban
    yuuN aaNsuu ban bah jaanaa kyaa, yuuN maaTii meN mil jaanaa kyaa

    shab biitii chaaNd bhii Duub chalaa, zanjiir paRii darvaaze meN
    kyoN der ga'e ghar aa'e ho, sajnii se karo ge bahaanah kyaa
     

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