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Urdu/Hindi: pervert

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by omlick, Oct 25, 2010.

  1. omlick Senior Member

    Portland, Oregon, USA
    American English
    I saw this word in a hindi book बदज़ात badzaat, and I was wondering if it meant "pervert" or someone who is sexually deviant. The context was about a lower caste woman who exposes too much of her "flesh" and is a bad example to children. (It is an old story I guess).
     
  2. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

    French
    In this context, the colloquial word used in Lahori Urdu is Tharkii (initial 't' is retroflex).

    Badzaat doesn't mean anything specific and could be applied specifically to other things than sexuality, while Tharkii (the one having too much Tharak = desire / lust) directly refers to this aspect.

    Now I don't think this is standard Urdu, it is slangish, but it is the only word which refer to what you described and is commonly used and understood in Lahore and PK Punjab... I wonder if it is used or understood elsewhere too???

    P/S = I actually checked it out it is a proper Hindi word too = here, or here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2010
  3. flyinfishjoe Senior Member

    American English
    Yes, it's a very common word among Indian youth. Pretty much everyone understands it.
     
  4. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Yes, Tharkii is not used in Urdu generally. Local use (Lahore etc.) is there. From Punjabi I assume.

    بدذات literally means low-born but also means low, base; ill-bred; unprincipled, corrupt etc.

    As for an exact Urdu equivalent of ‘pervert’, it depends on the context. As meant here, منحرفwould not be suitable. Here are several alternatives of varying intensity and exact usage will be, as usual, context dependent:

    فاسق faasiq = debauched, rake, sinful etc.

    فاحش faaHish = فاسق و فاجر= obscene, immodest, smutty, indecent, immoderate etc.

    فاجر faajir = debauched, sinful; vicious, immoral.

    فاسد faasid = شریر، بدمعاش = depraved, corrupt, perverse

    بدچلن bad chalan = بَدکِرْدار/ بَدکار/ بَدمَعاش= immoral; bad character; lewd etc.

    بَدکار bad kaar = licentious, wicked, sinful, dissolute, profligate

    تَر دامَن tar daaman = immoral
     
  5. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

    French
    This is what I initially assumed too... But this word is now widespread in PK Urdu, not only Lahore, but also Karachi... However, I have never come across it in written... It means it hasn't become part of the written language yet.

    I would like to have some feedback from expert Punjabi speakers... Is this a word from Punjabi? It is possible, although it seems to be widespread in the Hindi / Urdu speaking area... No doubt it is a word of the young generation though...

    We can make the list suggested by Faylasoof much longer with different shades of meaning involved =

    pur-shehwat = lustful
    shehwat-parast = debauched, lustful
    bad-qumaash = sinful, immoral, bad character
    bad-hawas = lustful
    bad-mast = dissolute
    be-rahrawi me.n mubtalaa = licentious
    bad-fe3lii me.n mubtalaa = debauched

    And others I think we can come up with ten to twenty more words in this specific field. Translations are almost interchangeable for most of them...
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010
  6. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    I wouldn't use بَدحَواس bad Hawaas to mean a pervert! Its usage is common and means:
    مضطرب muDhTarib / حَواس باخْتَہ Hawaas baxtah / وَحْشَت زَدَہ waHshat zadah / بوکھلایا baukhlaayaa, and also بے وقوف be wuqoof!

    Although bad mast could be used (for lewd etc.), it is normally used for someone drunk etc :
    بد مست = drunk,inebriated, intoxicated ; but also lustful, lewd etc.
     
  7. bakshink Senior Member

    China
    punjabi
    Hindi words that come to my mind are dushcharitra, charitrahiin, veshyaagaamii
     
  8. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

    French
    You are perfectly right . My bad.

    Bakshi sb. good you joined the discussion. Is Tharkii a word you use in your Punjabi ??
     
  9. bakshink Senior Member

    China
    punjabi
    Yes Cliqui

    It is very much used in Punjabi spoken in North India and it means the same :)
    BTW the Punjabi spoken in Lahore is the most used/spoken dialect of Punjabi in Indian side of Punjab.
     
  10. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

    French
    Thanks for confirming that.

    In Lahore, people say that the pure and correct (TheTh) Punjabi is the one spoken on the other side of Wagah border (i.e. in Indian Punjab), especially the one spoken by the Sikhs... There may be some truth to this. There is no doubt that the Sikhs must value the Punjabi language more than any other community since the Guru Granth Sahib is in Punjabi.
     
  11. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Cilqui, can you use this word "ṭharkī" for any old besharam or is it restricted to lewd behavior?

    As for the question of the "real Punjabi" and who speaks it, let's have this conversation in another thread, if anyone would like to start it.
     
  12. Cilquiestsuens Senior Member

    French
    Why do you mean exactly by old besharam?... (not really asking here for graphic details :D )

    As for the 'real Punjabi' thing.... I was just quoting something I have heard from every-single-one in Lahore!!! I don't feel knowledgeable enough to express any opinion on this subject....
     
  13. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Sorry, I think I misunderstood something. Retracted me question! :eek:
     
  14. Koozagar Senior Member

    Urdu
    Tharki is a very particular kind of be-sharam. I think pervert is indeed the best translation. Tharki is someone who is deprived of sexual gratification. He is always looking for a chance to satisfy his carnal desires. He would take anything. Holding a hand, pinching a butt in a crowded bazaar, or even a momentary eye contact. Given the limitation of avenues, and moral pressures, even these passing, marginal gratifications will do it for him. A more sophisticated Tharki, is a flirt, who is seasoned at the art of gaining acceptability among girls, who would usually keep boys at bay. He would always be found around girls. Yet he is smoother than the looser Tharki. Chatting with girls satisfies his 'Tharak'.
    Now there is another word: Poond. Poond is yellow jacket in Punjabi. This is a person who is often seen outside the girl's college ogling at girls, or in Bazar. I think the behavior of Poond boys is very similar to the yellow jacket that buzzes around you and doesn't go away, hence the term. He is not as desperate as the one who would pinch a butt. His 'Tharak' is not burning him from inside. The act is called Poondi karna and is Lahori boys' favorite pastime.

    Tharki is a unique product of a society not very permissive of mixing of genders.
     
  15. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Please allow a "real Punjabi" to add a little.

    "Thark" has nothing to do with "be-sharmii/be-Hayaa'ii". Its exact equivalent in Urdu would be "shauq". "manuuN Farsi zabaan daa baRaa Thark e". mujhe Farsi zabaan kaa bahut shauq hai.

    Now, if this word has acquired a new meaning, that is another matter. I would suggest it is a Lahori slang term.
     
  16. BP. Senior Member

    Karachi
    Urdu
    ^Thank you indeed.
     
  17. Sheikh_14 Senior Member

    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
     
  18. littlepond Senior Member

    Hindi
    Yes, "Tharkii" is a very commonly used word in Hindi slang in north India.
     
  19. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    It is most probably a Punjabi loan-word in Urdu however there does exist an original word Tharak in Urdu and has two meanings: 1. بھگوڑے بیل یا ڈھور کے گلے میں لٹکا ہوا لکڑی کا موٹا ڈنڈا جو اس سے بھاگنے میں اس کی دونوں اگلی ٹانگوں کے بیچ میں اٹک کر آڑا ہو جاتا ہے اور اسے بھاگنے نہیں دیتا۔
    and "snoring" (Platts).
    Here are the two words, Thark and Tharkii in the Urdu script in nasta3liiq style:ٹھرک، ٹھرکی but I am not sure if every computer is able to show it in nasta3liiq. I don't agree with the bit about Lahori origins.

    Transliteration (I forgot): bhagoRe bail yaa Dhor ke gale meN laTkaa hu'aa lakRii kaa moTaa DaNDaa jo us se bhaagne meN us kii donoN aglii TaaNgoN ke biich meN aTak kar aaRaa ho jaataa hae awr use bhaagne nahiiN detaa (local).
     
  20. Dib Senior Member

    Germany
    Bengali (India)
    Totally agreed. However, I remember in the movie "Bheja Fry" (I think - not 100% sure), there was a girl, who didn't understand the word, and had to get it translated into English as "nymphomaniac".
     
  21. littlepond Senior Member

    Hindi
    ^ Your memory serves you right, Dib jii! :)
     

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