Urdu, Hindi, Punjabi: raunaq رَونَق रौनक़

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by marrish, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Hi,

    Please have a look at the conversation quoted below, which threatened to go on a tangent :)
    So to reiterate, could you please come forward with possible examples for all the three target languages from the literature as well as from other sources in order to illustrate its usage so that we can discuss the possible translations?

    To start with Urdu, here is a couplet (matla3) from a Ghazal by Jigar Muraadaabaadii which can be heard in the film Mere Huzur, in the rendition of Raj Kumar:

    دل گیا رونقِ حیات گئی
    غم گیا ساری کائنات گئی
    dil gayaa raunaq-i-Hayaat ga'ii
    Gham gayaa saarii kaa'inaat ga'ii

    ..... which I dare translate as follows:

    My sweetheart is no more! Life's very cheerfulness is gone
    My sorrow is no more, whole universe is gone


    Thank you for the examples.
     
  2. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    marrish SaaHib, please allow me to offer my do-paisaa worth.

    My sweetheart has gone. Gone is life's very manifestation
    No more the pining for her! Gone is the whole of creation!

    I think, in this shi3r "raunaq-i-Hayaat" means the "joy of life".

    Here is what I said in another thread.

    Well, you might have heard of "Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle". In essence, he said (in 1927,in terms of quantum mechanics) that no observation can be made without affecting the observed. Our Mirza Ghalib has said exactly the same thing but in a much more eloquent way and a long time before Heisenberg!

    un ke dekhe se jo aa jaatii hai muNh par raunaq
    vuh samajhte haiN kih biimaar kaa Haal achchhaa hai!

    When her gaze brings radiance and life to my face
    She thinks that this sick man is quite healthy really!
     
  3. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Dear QP SaaHib, everyone in the forum knows that there is no equal to you in translating Urdu and Persian couplets into the English langauge, it is surprising that you haven't yet offered any translations of Hindi poetry but I hope here you might get a go!

    Thanks for quoting your previous endeavours.

    For me, raunaq has more connotations than ''joy'' however in this very context it can be brought down to it.

    Waiting impatiently for the coming contributions!
     
  4. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    A remark about the thread title: I didn't include any script for Punjabi, only for Urdu and Hindi, since Punjabi uses different ways of writing, unlike Urdu or Hindi.
     
  5. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Urdu:
    سو بار چمن مہکا، سو بار بہار آئی
    دنیا کی وہی رونق، دل کی وہی تنہائی
    اک لحظہ بہے آنسو، اک لحظہ ہنسی آئی
    سیکھے ہیں نئے دل نے اندازِ شکیبائی
    صُوفی غلام مُصطفٰی تبسم
    sau baar chaman mehkaa, sau baar bahaar aa'ii
    dunyaa ki wohi raunaq, dil ki wohi tanhaa'ii
    ik laHzah bahe aansu, ik laHzah hansi aa'ii
    seekhe haiN na'ae dil ne andaaz-e-shikebaa'ii
    Sufi Ghulam Mustafa Tabassum

    اک دریا کے رخ بدلتے ہی
    اک ندی پھر اتر گئی ہو گی
    جس طرف وہ سفر پہ نکلا تھا
    ساری رونق ادھر گئی ہوگی
    موحسن نقوی
    ik daryaa ke rux badalte hi
    ik nadi phir utar gae'ii ho gi
    jis taraf woh safar peh niklaa thaa
    saari raunaq udhar gae'ii ho gi
    Mohsin Naqvi

    دل کچھ اور بھی سرد ہوا ہے شام شہر کی رونق سے
    کتنی ضیاء بے سود گئی شیشے کے لفظ جلانے میں
    میں تو منیر آئینے میں خود تک کر حیران ہوا
    یہ چہرہ کچھ اور طرح تھا پہلے کسی زمانے میں
    منیر نیازی
    dil kuchh aur bhi sard huaa hai shaam-e-shahar ki raunaq se
    kitni zyaa' be-suud gae'ii sheeshe ke lafz jalaane meiN
    maiN to Muneer aae'ine meiN xud tak kar Hairaan huaa
    yeh chehrah kuchh aur tarH thaa pehle kisi zamaane meiN
    Muneer Niyaazi

    وہ میرا رونق محفل کہاں ہے ، میری بجلی ، میرا حاصل کہاں ہے
    مقام اسکا ہے دل کی خلوتوں میں ، خدا جانے مقام دل کہاں ہے
    تیرے سینے میں دم ہے ، دل نہیں ہے ؛ تیرا دم گرمی ئے محفل نہیں ہے
    گزر جا عقل سے آگے کہ یہ نور چراغ راہ ہے...منزل نہیں ہے
    اقبال
    woh mera raunaq-e-maHfil kahaaN hai, meri bijli , mera HaaSil kahaaN hai
    maqaam uskaa hai dil ki khalwatoN meiN, khudaa jaane maqaam-e-dil kahaaN hai
    tere seene meiN dum hai, dil naheeN hai ; tera dum garmi-e-maHfil naheeN hai
    guzar jaa aql se aage, keh yeh noor charaagh-e-raah hai...manzil naheeN hai
    Iqbal
     
  6. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ Thank you Alfaaz SaaHib, excellent examples. Would you say the word has the same meaning in all your examples?
     
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Regarding Punjabi, all I can say for the time being is that the word is pronounced "rauNRak"/"roNRak" with the plural in "-aaN". If I come across anything from Punjabi literature, I shall post it. (I tried to include this information to my previous post but the system has not allowed it.)
     
  8. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Thank you for so much. I believe the plural usage is not peculiar to Urdu (and to be corteuous, Hindi). I might be wrong, though, and it is the purpose of this thread to enlighten all that should be on the usage of this word, including me.
     
  9. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Punjabi:
    اک تانی تنی ہوئی اے
    یاری نہ توڑیں واہ واہ رونق بنی ہوئی اے
    ---
    پالک بھیرے دی
    اندروں کهر گئے ہاں ویہلی رونق چہرے دی

    شارب
     
  10. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Re raunaq. I've known a person (with a substantial impact on me as far as the literature is concerned) who was called Ronak. He belonged to the Gujarati community but was very well conversant with Urdu. He is a male (with a feminine noun of Urdu as a name, although adapted to the needs of the native language). If I'm not mistaken it is a common name (I don't realize any possible significance but this person called himself a Brahmin and used to wear a sacred thread around his shoulders).
     
  11. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    ^ Ronak is a first name for males, often used, particularly in Gujarat.
     
  12. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank Alfaaz SaaHib for the Punjabi quotes. Is it actually pronounced as "raunaq" in Punjabi?
     
  13. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    You're welcome. No. It would probably depend on how one interprets the poetry and the word in it. For example, in the Mohsin Naqwi quote, raunaq could be representing species diversity in the ecosystem :)! What would your opinion be Qureshpor SaaHib...would you say the word has the same meaning in all of the examples?
    When I previously quoted Punjabi in another thread, you asked a similar question and later revealed that my spelling was perhaps influenced by Urdu (hansna vs. hassna). Is this question meant to be pointing to another mistake...or simply a question about opinions on pronunciation? If it is the latter, then as discussed in other threads, all of the following styles/pronunciations seem to be used: raunaq, rauNRaq(q), raunak, rauNRak(k).
    Is this "ro" the same sound as in ronaa?
     
  14. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Like a true politician, your response poses more questions than presenting answers! But, that's life. Here are my answers with no questions

    1) To me, they all convey the same sentiment. But, your interpretation (for Muhsin Naqvi) is very interesting and I like it.

    2) In Punjabi, the word is rauNRak or even roNRak.
     
  15. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Just to clarify, in the name Ronak discussed above, the pronunciation is still "raunak".
     
  16. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Hope you don't mind QURESHPOR SaaHib, but you seem to be even closer to a true politician: asking a question that you have answered already (leading the public to think that there may be other possible answers) and then going directly back to your first answer, which leaves the public thinking: "What was the point of asking the question if the answer was already known?"!
    1) Thanks!

    Clarification, just in case readers get the wrong idea: I'm not a politician!
     
  17. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Classic case of "Lost in communication", I am afraid, Alfaaz SaaHib and this would not have happened had we been speaking to each other face to face.

    Your second quote:

    I was simply asking if you heard "raunaq" being uttered when you were listening to the Punjabi lines...or indeed whether you were just copy/pasting the word as you found it. Nothing more than that. Sometimes we (humans) tend to imagine things that are not really there. I hope the matter is slightly clearer now. No I don't mind your misunderstanding. As I've got at least one admirer, perhaps I should take up politics!:)

    "tumheN yaad ho kih nah yaad ho", we have discussed this before. There is a tendency for Punjabi speakers, especially linked to the film world, not to pronounce the retroflex, e.g. terii kanke dii raakhhii... instead of terii kaNRke dii raakhii...I accept there is no retroflex in the original word "raunaq" but it has crept in TheTh Punjabi somehow.

    Your fourth quote

    I was interested in your perception. My perception was the word had the same sense in all the situations.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2013
  18. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    It was directly copied from print. Perhaps if things were stated clearly the first time, we would not "tend to imagine things"!:)
    humeiN yaad hai, which is why I included the qaaf versions as well. As discussed before, some Punjabi speakers of the film world also seemed to pronounce their qaafs. (It could be influence from Urdu, as they usually worked in films of multiple languages).
     
  19. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you for your very colourful response. As long as there are no hard feelings, that's the important thing.
     
  20. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Looking at this thread after more than a month leads me to the conclusion that we haven't booked any significant progress and that many questions have remained unanswered. Let us forget about the pronunciation of Punjabi for the moment and focus our attention on the original question, which is:

    Could you please come forward with possible examples for all the three target languages from the literature as well as from other sources in order to illustrate its usage so that we can discuss the possible translations?

    In order to make this task easier, it is a good idea to consolidate the information that our forum has stored in its treasuries (green highlights mine) as well as other sources, namely dictionaries that are available to me.

    Persian:
    There is another couplet, which was quoted in a previous thread (no translation available, as yet):

    dil apnaa sunsaan nagar hai phir bhii kitnii raunaq hai
    sapnoN kii baaraat sajii hai, yaadoN kii shahnaa'ii hai
    Raj Kumar ''Qais''

    ********************************************
    janaab-e-Platts SaaHib farmaate haiN: (an example of the productiveness of izaafat with non P/A words)

    A رونق raunaq, vulg. ronaq (v.n. fr. رنق; 2 nd conj. 'to render clear'), s.f. Lustre, water (of a sword, &c.); brightness, splendour, beauty, elegance, grace, ornament; freshness, prime; colour, complexion; flourishing state or condition;—(met.) order, symmetry:—raunaq-afzā honā, raunaq-afroz honā, v.n. To grace or honour (by one's arrival or presence), to confer dignity (on); to arrive:—raunaq-par honā, To be in full bloom or splendour, to be in (its) prime; to be in a flourishing state:—raunaq-dār, adj. Bright, brilliant, splendid.

    The following is from the dictionary full of old proverbs and phrases, the author of which is a bit forgotten illustrous compiler of several lexicons, including that of legal and commercial terms, xawaatiin-o-Hazraat, janaab-e-Fallon SaaHib tashriif farmaa ho rahe haiN:

    A
    رونق rau'naq; Illit. ravannaq, n. f.
    رنق cleared. See rūp, (2). 1. Complexion; color.
    1. Uske chehre par raunaq hai.
    2. Sārī raunaq chār paise kī hai. For two pence you 've this painted show.
    2. Splendour; dignity.
    3. (Illit. Fac.) Tumult; uproar; row. raunaq-afroz h., v. n. 1. To grace or honor by one's presence; confer dignity on.
    2. To arrive at a place; visit a person. raunaq-dār, adj. Brilliant; splendid.

    ab baarii hai Shakespear SaaHib kii, aap tashriif-e-arzaanii farmaa kar irshaad karte haiN:

    رونق raunaḳ,
    A (from

    رنق) s. f. 1. Beauty, elegance, splendour, ornament, gayety. 2. (met.) Order, symmetry.
    رونق افزاهونا raunaḳ-afzā- honā, v. n. To grace (by the presence of the person addressed or spoken of, when a person of consequence honours a place with his pre- sence); to arrive.
    رونق دار raunaḳ-dār, adj. Brilliant, splendid.

    Sayyid Ahmad KhaaN Dehlavii SaaHib in ash3aar kaa Hawaalah dete haiN, afsos kih aNgrezi meN tarjumah nahiiN dastyaab:


    (آبادی، آوادانی، گہماگہم، چہل پہل، جیسے رونق چار پیسے کی)
    (aabaadii, avaadaanii, gahmaa-gahm, chahal-pahal, jaise raunaq chaar paise kii)
    وہ کوچہ ہے اشکِ خوں سے گلزار
    رونق ہے یہ ساری اپنے دم کی
    vuh kuuchah hai ashk-e-xuuN se gulzaar
    raunaq hai saarii apne dam kii (Momin)

    ***
    بہار، جوبن، لطف، کیفیت، جیسے وہاں آجکل رونق آ رہی ہے، اب تو یہ باغ رونق پر ہے)
    bahaar, joban, lutf, kaifiyyat jaise vahaaN aajkal raunaq aa rahii hai, ab to yih baaGh raunaq par hai)
    ***

    (زیب و زینت، زیبایش، آرایش zeb-o-ziinat, zebaayish, aaraayish)
    کُفر کچھ چاہئیے اسلام کی رونق کیلئے
    حُسن زُنّار ہے تسبیحِ سلیمانی کا
    kufr kuchh chaahi'ye islaam kii raunaq kelie
    Husn zunnaar hai tasbiiH-e-sulaymaanii kaa

    janaab-e-Nur-ul-Hassan Kakorvi SaaHib Hasb-e-Zail ke ash3aar bataate haiN:

    قبر پر شاید وہ ہوں گے رونق افروز اے جلال
    آج کچھ کل کی اُداسی شمعِ محفل میں نہیں
    qabr par shaayad vuh hoN ge raunaq-afroz ai Jalaal
    aaj kuchh kal kii udaasii sham3-i-maHfil meN nahiiN
    (Jalal)
    ***
    یوسف سے اپنے عہد میں کچھ کم نہیں ہے تو
    تیرا بھی حُسن رونقِ بازار ہو گیا

    Yusuf se apne 3ahd meN kuchh kam nahiiN hai tuu
    teraa bhii Husn raunaq-i-baazaar ho gayaa

    (Mus_Hafii)

    Alfaaz SaaHib, I'm grateful to you for providing the literary examples, could you also please try your luck in an attempt to translate raunaq in English?

    ab aaiye dekhte haiN Hindi bhaaSHaa meN raunaq ke arth kyaa liye jaate haiN. khed kii baat hai shabdkoshoN ko chhoR kar ko'ii hamaare paas Hindi saahitya kaa udaaharaNR nahiiN hai.

    रौनक rāūnaq fu (a) brilliance, gaiety: उसके चेहरे पर ~ थी there was -- on his/her face. (b) pomp and show: बाज़ार में बड़ी ~ हैं there is great -- in the bazar. (Hardev Bahri)

    Mahendra Chaturvedi jii kii ´Practical Hindi-English Dictionary' meN chaahe raunaq ke baare meN koii spaSHTiikaraNR uplabdh nahiiN par be-raunaq kaa bhaaSHaaNtar aNgrezii meN maujuud hai:

    बेरौनक lustreless; colourless, lifeless

    Hindi shabdsaagar tells us more about this noun:

    रौनकसंज्ञा स्त्री० [अ० रौनक़]१. वर्ण और आकृति । रूप । २. चमक दमक । तेज । दीप्ति । कांति । जैसे,—चेहरे पर रौनक होना । ३. प्रफुल्लता । विकास । जैसे,—सुनते ही चेहरे की रौनक उड़ गई । ४. शोभा । छटा । चहल पहल । सुहावनापन । जैसे—व्यापार गिर जाने से शहर की रौनक जाती रही ।यौ०रौनक अफरोज = रौनक बढ़ानेवाला । शोभाबृद्धि करनेवाला । उ०—दरबार में रौनक अफरोज हुए ।—प्रेमघन०, भा० २, पृ० १७ । रौनकदार । रौनके महाफिल = समाज या महाफिल की शोभा बढ़ानेवाला ।

    May I ask someone to transliterate it in Roman for the benefit of those who can't read it?

    So, having so many references, I hope we can come to some binding conclusions!
     
  21. Wolverine9 Senior Member

    American English
    Actually, it does have raunaq.

    रौनक़ raunaq (nf) gaiety, splendour, brightness and brilliance; ~अफ़्जा/अफ्रोज़ होना to grace an occasion; ~अफ़्जाई/अफ्रोज़ी gracing of an occasion; ~दार gay, splendid, bright and brilliant.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  22. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Thanks, my inadvertence. (rest snipped as not more relevant).
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  23. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    aap kaa Hukm sar aaNkhoN pih!

    My heart is a deserted city! yet, whispers within it a lively breeze
    Dreams adorned as wedding guests and a symphony of memories

    You have quoted one of my previous posts but it seems you have highlighted the wrong section of my translation for "raunaq".

    "ek haNgaame* pah mauquuf hai ghar kii raunaq
    nauHah-i-Gham hii sahii, naGhmah-i-shaadii nah sahii

    The hustle and bustle in a home results from a little uproar and clamour
    If it is not from a song of joy, then through sorrow's lamentation, so be it"

    As you can see, I have translated "ek haNgaamah" as "a little uproar and clamour". "raunaq" is "hustle and bustle".

    Looking at all your examples and dictionary definitions, it seems to me that "raunaq" has several meanings and it is used in terms of facial complexion, the hustle and bustle of a place, the splendour and dignity of a place , the adornment of a concept and so on. So, it is context based.
     
  24. Gope Senior Member

    Chennai
    Tamil
    raunak noun feminine [A: raunaq] 1 varn. aur ākr.ti - rūp - 2 camak damak - tej - dīpti - kānti - jaise, cehre par raunak honā - 3 praphullatā - vikās - jaise, - sunte hī cehre kī raunak ud. gaī - 4 śobhā - chat.ā - cahal pahal - suhāvanāpan - jaise - vyāpār gir jāne se śahar kī raunak jātī rahī । (in combination) raunak aphroj = raunak bad.hānevālā । śobhāvr.ddhi karnevālā । example: darbār me.n raunak aphroj hue । - premghan, bhāg 2, pr.s.t. (page) 17 । raunakdār । raunake mahāphil = samāj yā mahāphil kī śobhā bad.hānevālā ।


    Because I could not place the dot under the retroflexes, I have placed it NEXT to them : n. t. r. s. d.
    And the nasalised n is indicated by placing the dot BEFORE n : .n

    I am sure there are errors in this transliteration. Please someone improve on this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014
  25. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ I did n't quite follow your post, Gope Jii!
     
  26. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    But I did and I'm grateful for his post :D!!!! It is in response to "May I ask someone to transliterate it in Roman for the benefit of those who can't read it?"

    At last (after more than a year) someone has been reciprocative and co-operative and shared the burden of typing with me! (Nagari for me and the transliteration for Gope SaaHib). He also recognised the potential needs of people who can't read Hindi.

    Gope SaaHib, thank you very much.

    EDIT: We have still no references to Hindi literature, and Punjabi has also not been done justice to!
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2014

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