Urdu-Hindi-Punjabi: roTii

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Qureshpor, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I have icfatima especially in mind as I know that one of her favourite topics for this forum is food words!:)

    roTii is the most common word for the general conept of "bread" in English and this word, as far as I know, is common in the three languages listed in the thread. I would like forum members to come up with names of all sorts of different types of "roTii" in their respective languages. But, rather than just listing names, it would make the thread a little more interesting if the word is used in verse or in an idiom or proverb. This is not a condition but if you can do so, please do it by all means.
     
  2. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    Urdu: naan, kulchah, taaftaan, shiirmaal, tikyaa, paraThaa, chapaatii, dostii (a kind of chapaatii).
     
  3. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    What I meant was...if at all possible..

    At school I remember reading short poems to memorise certain "time" facts.

    saaTh minaT kaa ghanTah ek
    duudh chapaatii biskiT kek!!
     
  4. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    In south India, chapathi (pron. "chapaatii") is something different from roti (pron. "roTii").

    To add to UM's list (in which I am not familiar with taaftaan, sheermaal and dostii): phulkaa, roTlaa, tandoorii roTii, missii roTii, baaTii, rumalii roTii, makkii dii roTii, Dhebraa, bhaTooraa, (Kerala) paroTaa, appam, all kinds of Dosa, pooRii.

    I think cheelaa and pesaraTTu can also be included in the list though they are made from batter of pulses/grams.
     
  5. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Sikhs often call "roti" "prashadas." You'd hear this in both a Gurudwara context (where all food becomes "prashaad") or at a home.
     
  6. lcfatima Senior Member

    In a teapot
    English USA
    Missi roTi kha te Thanda paaNi pi.

    In my husband's family they make something called roghni roTi which keeps for a long time for travelling.

    All the others I can think of have been mentioned above unless you get into varieties based on grain variations, like baajre ki roTii, jowaar ki roTi, chaawal ki roTi, raagi ki roTi/bhaakri.

    Bihaari roT (it is shaped like a thick fat roTi, but come to think of it, roT may be a sweet, I am not sure), liTTi

    Khamiiri roTi

    warqi paraatha, all varieties of stuffed paraaThe



    Roghni naan, afghaani naan, peshaavri naan, lahori naan

    baaqarkhaani, the naan and not the elephant ear/palmier (not sure why baaqarkhaani applies to both the bread and pastry)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2012
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you icfatima for a detailed and very informative post with a shi3r from Punjabi poetry. In due course, with the help of all the friends on the forum, I hope to try and describe the various types of roTiis, especially those that may be unfamiliar to us. I think it would be a good learning exercise for us. In the mean time..

    nah puuchh is kii Haqiiqat, Huzuur-i-vaalaa ne
    mujhe jo bhejii hai besan kii rauGhanii roTii
    nah khaate gehuuN, nikalte nah xuld se baahar
    jo khaate Hazrat-i-Adam yih besanii roTii

    Ghalib
     
  8. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    As the only other "Tokan" Punjabi has bothered to write just one and half lines with only one "roTii" word, I better do something to recover the Punjabi 3izzat!:)

    "roTi" is of course the most common word for "roTii" in Punjabi. It seems to vary in size. "Our" roTii from the Punjab part that I am linked to, is about 8-9" in diameter and it is neither too thin nor thick. I have seen (and eaten) my Sikh Punjabi friends' roTiis, which are a couple of inches smaller (Could this be a "phulkaa"...please note, not "fulkaa"!). On the other hand I have seen Pathans making roTiis in the Punjab and they are absolutely huge!

    "chapaatii" is a word known to Punjabis and I am not sure if a chapaatii is perceived to be the same as a roTii or a bit different. I think, if I really have to look for a difference, it might be a little "nafiis" and therefore on the lighter side. But I am guessing I think.

    We have "kaNRak dii roTii" (made of wheat flour), baajre dii roTii (millet), makk/makkii/maka'ii dii roTii (maize) and maide dii roTii (fine flour). Talking about "baajraa", there is a famous song..

    baajre daa siTTaa asaaN talii te maroRiyaa... This roTii is normally eaten with makkhan and sariyoN (sarsoN) daa saag. If you can eat a whole roTii, you need not eat anything for the next two days and you must be desperately hungry to eat it in the first place! makk dii roTii, on the other hand is a wee bit lighter but not by much!

    Then there is "miss dii roTii" which is your besanii roTii. Very tasty indeed. I should have mentioned that "maide dii roTii" is in fact fried in oil and it is then known as "luchchii" (puurii), which goes well with Halvaa and chaaT.

    A roTii can be "rukhkhii" (ruukhii) or t_hluukhii (buttered). One can put butter between two "peRaas" and one then ends up with a two layered "paraaNThaa or "paroNthaa". There is also the way of kneading the butter into the dough and then making the paraaNThaa. Both are lovely with a nice hot cup of tea and a touch of mango aachaar.

    "gullii" is also a word used for "roTii" but for some strange reason I seem to think this would be a smallish roTii. And "gogii" is definitely a very small roTii, made especially for smaller children. And have you heard this famous line by Bulleh Shah? I am not sure, I've got the lines or order of the words right.

    maNg o bandiyaa rabb koloN
    gullii, jullii te naale kulii

    (maaNg o bande rab se, roTii, kapRaa aur makaan)

    "TuuRaa" and "Tukkar" are words used for "roTii" but I think they are considered somewhat uncouth. A very thin roTii baked under the summer sun is called a "Taap" (plural TaapaaN). It is somewhat equivalent to "paapaR" but not quite.

    "mann" is a term used for a huge "roTii".

    I shall return if I think of any other words...but will leave you with these ..

    chhoR liTrechar ko, apnii hisTarii ko bhuul jaa
    shaix-o-masjid se ta3alluq tark kar, iskuul jaa
    chaar din kii zindagii hai, koft se kyaa faa’idah
    khaa Dabal-roTii, kilarkii kar, xushii se phuul jaa

    Akbar Ilahaabaadii
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2012
  9. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Some words from Arabic, Persian, Turkish that sometimes might be used in Urdu/cultural recipes: خبز (khubz) , آبی (aabi) , خمیری (khameeri) , ساق عروس (saaq-e-u'roos) , قؤيماق (qo'imaaq) , کاک (kaak)
     
  10. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    What are "cultural recipes," Alfaaz?
     
  11. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Excuse the poor and possibly confusing wording! Perhaps "various regional cuisines" would've been better...words used in food programs, books, and/or dictionaries containing recipes from different parts of the world, representing different cultures.
     
  12. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you Alfaaz for these terms. I must admit that apart from xubz and xamiirii, I am not familiar with the remaining terms.

    Any chance of normal size font typing?
     
  13. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    What's normal, QP? Or did you mean standard?
     
  14. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Would you be kind enough to tell us a little about "taaftaan" and "tikyaa" please. For those not familiar with "shiir-maal", it is a sweetish naan made from flour kneaded in milk (shiir-maal = duudh men malaa hu'aa). It is eaten with qormah.
     
  15. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    Sure. taaftaan is made with ingredients similar to shiirmaal. The difference is that it is thicker (and bit fluffier) and therefore less dense. I think also a bit less sweet too. Also eaten with qormah and like.

    tikyaa is a name for a thicker rotii typically roGhanii (made with oil). It is less stretchy than a rotii or paraThaa and breaks very easily (somewhat brittle). Mostly homemade, I do not recall seeing these in restaurants. Great breakfast bread with a half-fried egg and a cup of tea.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2012
  16. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Interesting! I am assuming that "shiir" here derives from "shiiraa" (which means halwa)?
     
  17. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    No this is not shiiraa here, but shiir meaning milk.

    But good question because the two sound so similar. And shiiraa does not mean Halwa, but a kind of thick liquid which is made with sugar or guR. The stuff you see gulaab jaamans floating in. I suspect shiiraa is linked to shiiriiN (sweet) rather than shiir (milk). Would be interesting to know the connection between the two (shiir, shiiriiN), though.
     
  18. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    Thank you, UM, for your clarifications!

    In Gujarat/Gujarati, we call "soojii ka halwaa"/"soojii no halwo" as shiiraa (esp. when it is "lighter", that is, has a higher proportion of milk), which is why my confusion probably. I have heard the word "shiiiraa" in Hindi, too, for sooji ka halwa in particular.
     
  19. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Milk/ shiir is inherently sweet and "shiiriin" implies something like/resembling shiir. By extension, it has come to mean "sweet". zar > zarriin (gold > golden)
     
  20. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    BTW, we pronounce this as rauGhanii roTii رَوغَنی روٹی - from rauGhan رَوغَن (=oil), of course!
     
  21. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    We too, when we are in the process of speaking "King's Urdu" pronounce the word as "rauGhanii". On the other hand when we speak "King's Punjabi", we invariably say "roGhnii"! ya3nii UM SaaHib se bhii ek haath aage nikal jaate haiN!:)
     
  22. jakubisek Junior Member

    Czechia
    Czech
    Should I take "roTi" to be a GENERIC term for all kinds of flat-bread? Or is roTii more specific (as I always thought), meaning flat-bread baked on tawa or in tandoor, with no use of oil?

    I always thought that parontha/paratha is NOT a type of roTii and the principal contrast is in its being fried. (Or is oil in the dough as well?) and that purii/luchii differs mainly by being deep fried, while naan is clearly bigger and thicker than common roTii. Is there any yeast in naan? (Or is it in any other way fermented? Or how it differs from roTii)

    Please correct or confirm...

    Above all, I never understood if roTii and chapAtii are synonyms (full synonyms? or regionally distributed?) in Hindi. In Bengali I never heard "chapati", always "ruTi" (and they never make it really good, compared to Pakistan and NW India)
    So, how is it? What is the difference chapati-roti in your native tongue or that of your friends? (Ask your wife,mum pl. :)

    Someone mentioned a difference between those two in Tamil. Can you specify?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2013
  23. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    You are right to distinguish between roTii and paraThaa. It is unlikely that one would call paraThaa roTii. Also, chapaatii is a type of a roTii that is very skinny and stretched out. So every chapaatii is roTii but the converse is not true.

    Having said this, there is a more generic meaning of roTii that just means food and nutrition. Such as you would find in populist slogans like "roTii, kapRaa aur makaan" (food, clothing and shelter). In my view it is similar to the meaning the word paisa has. A paisa is technically 1/100th of a rupee, but the term also generically applies to mean wealth. So the context is critical.

    English has many words that are overloaded with such related multiple meanings. One that comes to mind right now is "house". As in a house one lives in, the house of representatives, the House of Windsor, and so on.
     
  24. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    As has been explained, roTii can be both specific as well as generic (bread..any kind of). I would classify "paraaThaa" as a kind of "roTii" where either ghii is applied inside and outside the dough or sometimes even kneaded into it.

    puurii (Punjabi luchchii) is much lighter and smaller than a roTii and it can be made from normal flour but often it is made from maidah (refined flour).

    naan is originally a Persian word and it simply stands for bread and of course there are many varieties of naan as there are of roTii. Leavened roTii is called xamiirii roTii. naan, as you've described is thicker but not necessarily always larger than an average roTii. naan is generally leavened but one can get unleavened naan as well.

    chapaatii, as has been explained is a light-weight roTii. Please do take into account that people coming from different ethnic backgrounds may all call an object a roTii, but those in the Punjab, for example, may be bigger than those from some areas yet smaller than roTiis from another area..

    Good advice about asking one's mother or wife etc. What if the person responding to you is a mother and a wife!?:) Should she ask her mother-in-law?
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2013
  25. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    In south India, "roTii" and "chapaatii" mean diff. things. The former is hard and tough at times like leather :eek: whereas the latter is approaching a "phulkaa" but not yet, really.
     
  26. G.Singh New Member

    Gurmukhi
    Um, roti is just the generic one; there's not really dif. words just dif. ways of making it.

    Example chappati is just a hindi word; paratha is where you butter it twice; naan is when it's baked in a tandoor, etc.
     
  27. jakubisek Junior Member

    Czechia
    Czech
    Since I remember seeing often "tandoori roti / chapati" on menus, apparently the mere fact of being baked in tandoor does not suffice to define naan.
     
  28. jakubisek Junior Member

    Czechia
    Czech
    I'm moving the subtopic "difference between roTii and chapaatii" to a separate thread: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2600654

    Can you all post your answers to that again in that one, please?
    Try to clarify in details. Repat whatever you mentioned here in the new thread again, so that the answers to this on this simple question (which seems not to have any simple answer as the few of you who answered me here, seem to say something else each) in one place (hope to get some more clarification there :)
     
  29. Sheikh_14 Senior Member

    English- United Kingdom, Urdu, Punjabi
    It is quite interesting that since roghani Naan or Raughani Naan derives from Raughan i.e. oil why is it always translated as butter naan. Is it because of the desi ghee and thus the type of oil typically used?

    Secondly, with regards to خبز‎ Khubaz, Khobaz, Khobz etc depending on dialectic discrepancies, is it a valid word within the Urdu lughat?
     
  30. Dib Senior Member

    Germany
    Bengali (India)
    Bengali "luchi" is also essentially the same thing. The "puurii" of the Hindi belt is, however, made of aaTaa (coarse flour). Interestingly, I have never heard the word "luchi" anywhere in the area between Punjab and Bengal!

    I am intrigued by the qo'imaaq, which sounds uncannily similar to Turkish "kaymak" (should I venture a guess and say, it sounds like an Uzbek rendering of the same word), which, however, is a dairy product. It tastes heavenly on a slice of bread with honey. :)

    EDIT: Here I have found a small write-up that captures my sentiment for kaymak perfectly:
    http://istanbuleats.com/2009/04/kaymak-the-heavenly-cream/
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2014

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