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Urdu, Hindi: rakhaa vs. paRaa

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Alfaaz, Dec 17, 2013.

  1. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Background: quote from a TV show:

    Questions: Would forum members agree with the comments above?

    • Do you differentiate between paRaa and rakhaa in such contexts?
      • If yes, how?
    • What is the correct pronunciation: rakhaa or rakhkhaa?
     
  2. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    No, I would n't. The host needs to check the usage of the word. "paRaa" is a verb of wide usage.

    gale paRnaa, paalaa paRnaa, musiibat paRnaa, nazar paRnaa and so on.

    a) I can detect a difference. "paRaa hu'aa hai" possibly implies no agent whereas "rakhaa huaa hai" suggests an agent is involved. You might remember a short discussion on this topic.

    http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2065335&page=2&highlight=paRii+rakhii

    b) Both. Certainly in Urdu poetry, depending on vazn, either/or is used.
     
  3. littlepond Senior Member

    Hindi
    "rakhaa huaa hai" would imply some kind of attention or care was/is being taken to keep the photo at some place; "paRaa huaa hai" implies that the photo is with me: maybe I took care to keep it in a safe place, maybe not - it's just lying with me. That's how it goes with me at least.
     
  4. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    If I were the "Host", I too would feel the same way. To me "rakhaa huaa" means kept with care/attention as explained in the preceding post.

    i pronounce "rakhaa" although "rakkhaa/rakkhii" is also pretty common and I keep hearing it very often and doesn't sound odd to my ears.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013
  5. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    kahte ho nah deN ge ham dil agar paRaa paayaa
    dil kahaaN kih gum kiije ham ne mudda3aa paayaa

    Ghalib

    tum to kahte ho kih agar ham ne dil kahiiN paRaa paayaa, to vaapas hargiz nahiiN deN ge!
    merii jaan dil hai kahaaN kih ham use gum kareN? haaN aa ga'ii samajh, tumhaare hii paas hai!

    I don't believe Ghalib will agree that his dil is "kuuRaa"!
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  6. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    How I would say it is this:
    بھائی آپ کا اوٹوگراف میرے پاس ابھی بھی موجود ہے۔ bhaa'ii aap kaa autograph mere paas abhii bhii maujuud hae.
    ۔۔۔ ابھی بھی ہے abhii bhii hae.
    ابھی بھی سننبھالا ہوا ہے abhii bhii saNbhaalaa hu'aa paRaa hai.
    ابھی بھی پڑا ہوا ہے abhii bhii paRaa [hu'aa] hai.
    etc.

    BUT

    میں نے آپ کا اوٹوگراف maiN ne aap kaa autograph:
    ابھیی بھی اپنے پاس رکھا ہے abhii bhii apne paas rakhaa hae
    ابھی بھی سَبھال کر رکھا ہے abhii bhii saNbhaal kar rakhaa hae
    ابھی بھی کتاب میں رکھا ہے abhii bhii kitaab meN rakhaa hae
    ابھی بھی گھر میں رکھا ہے پر پوچھئے تو کوڑے میں رکھ لوں گاabhii bhii ghar meN rakhaa hae par puuchhiye to kuuRe meN rakh luuN gaa.
    Would all of you agree that this host's comment was plainly crude?

    aur jaate jaate rahii kuuRe kii baat to pahle ise ko'ii rakhe gaa kih vuh paRaa ho yaa aisaa hae kih Mr. Host ke SaaHib-xaane meN kuuRe ko girne diyaa jaataa hae kih vuh paRaa rahtaa hae?
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2013
  7. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Thanks to everyone for all the detailed answers!
    Before anyone else comments or passes judgments, I will say (and should have mentioned earlier) that there was nothing rude or offensive about the host's comment! Reading just words (without sound) can give a different impression than when a person hears the same quote in context. Elder siblings might sometimes pick on (not in a mean way) their younger siblings as a form of affection. Since the host had met the fan and the caller had also referred to him as "bhaa'ii", he was just being jovial.

    Setting that matter aside and generally speaking, I would agree with littlepond, Chhaatr, and Qureshpor's part b. This seems to be suggested by Platts as well:
     
  8. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I agree it can be confusing in this situation! kyaa achchhaa hotaa agar aap ne shuruu3 se hii SaHiiH siyaaq-o-sabaaq kii wazaaHat kii hotii! Should there be still some misunderstanding, I meant the host's answer was crude, not that the caller was rude; on one end of the line you've got the caller, who is clearly polite and is a fan of the host and the host answers to his having mentioned still having the host's autograph in his possession: "Say not it is (lies) with me, say I kept it (cherish it), it's litter that can lay (around).'' I can imagine that an answer to an enthousiast fan would not go for comparison with litter. Anyhow, I agree with your explanations and you'd perhaps agree that this is rather not the core matter to discuss. It is paRaa and rakhaa or rakkhaa.

    Would you agree with my attitude regarding the grammar and language matters in my preceding post?
     
  9. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Hindi
    Marrish SaaHib ijaazat ho to arz karnaa chaahuNgaa ki mere Hindi kaanoN ko aapkaa tiisraa namuunaa "sambhaalaa huaa paRaa hai" kuchh aTpaTaa lagaa. Merii raae meN yahaaN "paRaa" ki jagah "rakhaa" honaa chaahie.

    Mujhe grammar ya vyaakaraNR kaa koii xaas gyaan nahiiN, magar jaisaa boltaa aur suntaa aayaa huN uske mutabiq apnii raae pesh ki hai.
     
  10. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    jii haaN aap kii baat durust hae. 3ajiib hai yih. aap hii haiN jo asl baat
    kaa jawaab de hii dete haiN.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013

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