Urdu/Hindi: Terrorism and Terrorist

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Faylasoof, Dec 12, 2008.

  1. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi

    I don’t think Urdu is unique in facing the problem of handling technical terms. This is a universal issue. The interesting thing for me is how different languages are trying to cope with the mass of new technological, scientific, political, sociological and even philosophical terms and ideas.

    Personally I feel there is nothing wrong per se about neologisms. Many languages the world-over are doing this and it only adds to their vocabulary, which I feel is a good thing, as long as these neologisms make sense. Below are examples of neologisms for Hindi-Urdu - some newer than others. I have chosen these because this is an important current issue. I sincerely hope no body feels that I’m being a killjoy!

    Urdu

    ‘askariyyat pasand = insurgents / armed militants
    dahshat gard = terrorist
    dahshat gardee = terrorism

    Modern Hindi

    aatash baaz = terrorist
    aatash baazee = terrorism

    (In Urdu, the above two they have a completely different meaning!! )

    Important note: The term aatash baaz is originally from Farsi ( aatash = fire and baaz = player) and for perhaps more than a century it meant in Urdu = performer of fire works! Similarly, aatash baazee (in Urdu) = fire works. These two were and still are standard Urdu terms with the meanings above. Quite when and how in modern Hindi they acquired a different terminology, I haven’t so far bothered to find out.


    Urdu, as I have said before, has always borrowed and, at least in the past, attempted to “Urduise” loan words; everything from full words like botal and gilaas to part words like tinginee / tinginnee ka naatch! These were once all neologisms but became part of the language. So what is the problem with continuing the process if it means broadening and widening the lexicon? Of course the process needs to be regulated.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2008
  2. BP. Senior Member

    Karachi
    Urdu
    Hindi has come to use 'pyrotechnics' for 'terrorism'! Good lord, I would already have said to some Hindiphone New year peh aatish-baazi daykhnay chaltay hai.n!
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2008
  3. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    How about a <aata.nkvaad> (अातंकवाद) for terrorism in Hindi?
     
  4. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    What is the lexical definition? In my old (not too big) Hindi dictionary I can't find अातंकवाद! Also, how would you derive 'terrorist' from this?
     
  5. BP. Senior Member

    Karachi
    Urdu
    It becomes aantakwaadi.
     
  6. Illuminatus Senior Member

    Mumbai, India
    India, Hindi, English, Marathi
    In Hindi,

    Aatank - आतंक - Terror
    Aatankwaad - आतंकवाद - Terrorism
    Aatankwaadi - आतंकवादी - Terrorist

    Aatishbaaji is understood by everyone to mean Fireworks and has no other connotation I know of.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2008
  7. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    How about <daishatgardi>? Would that be understood?
     
  8. Illuminatus Senior Member

    Mumbai, India
    India, Hindi, English, Marathi
    Yeah, dahshat-gardi (दहशतगर्दी) is also well understood.

    News channels generally use Atankwaad et al. and throw in Dahshatgardi etc. sporadically.

    In fact, aatankwaadi dahshat failaate hai.n (आतंकवादी दहशत फैलाते हैं) sounds pretty idiomatic to me.
     
  9. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    But not <dahshatgard aata.nk phailaate hai.n>? :D
     
  10. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Interesting! The use of dahshat-gardi and atankwaad etc. is new to me for Indian broadcasts. I tune in regularly to Zee and Sony and they keep using ‘aatashbaaz’ and ‘aatashbaazi’. I was surprised to hear the same recently from a ‘molvi’ from Varanasi! What the local channels use, I have no idea as I live abroad. The only time I hear 'dahshat gard' etc. is when I tune in to the international broadcast services of BBC Urdu (radio) or PrimeTV or Aaj TV etc.
     
  11. lcfatima Senior Member

    In a teapot
    English USA
    On Pakistani TV dahshatgardi is (unfortunately) very commonly used.
     
  12. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    I was surprised to learn that dahshatgardi is not used in Persian. In class, I've learned/used "terrorist" and "terrorism".
     
  13. BP. Senior Member

    Karachi
    Urdu
    You should teach your teacher a new word. It is formed after all using a verb from their language!
     
  14. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    PG,
    The Persian equivalents of the Urdu دھشتگردی dahshatgardii and دھشتگرد dahshatgard are, respectively, ارعابگري ir3aabgarii /ir2aabgarii and ارعابگر ir3aabagar / ir2aabgar.

    But I guess they are using terrorist / تروریستی tiruuristii and terrorism / تروریسم tiruurism in speech. What about in formal written Persian? Same as above, ارعابگري and ارعابگر?

    The Urdu دھشتگردی and دھشتگرد are our own inventions of course!
     
  15. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    I believe that written Persian and spoken Persian are the same here, but I'll wait for a more knowledgeable forero to weigh in. I suspect that this is limited to Iranian Persian only.
     
  16. Istriano

    Istriano Senior Member

    -
    In Bollywood movies they always use terrorism and terrorist in the middle of the Hindi dialog. :)
     
  17. eskandar

    eskandar Moderator

    English (US)
    I had never heard of ارعابگر and ارعابگری before, and from searching online they seem to be pretty rare. تروریست and تروریزم are the most common terms, even in formal written Persian, both in Iran as well as Afghanistan. I also see دهشت‌ افکن and دهشت‌ افکنی in written Iranian and Afghan Persian, though I've never heard them spoken. (I have no idea what terms might be used in Tajik Persian).
     
  18. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Actually, since I wrote my last post above I found out from reading books in Persian (from Iran) that it is indeed تروریست and تروریزم in both speech and formal, written Persian! These are very common!
     
  19. souminwé Senior Member

    Vancouver, Canada
    North American English, Hindi

    Lol, I assure you that you're mishearing aatankvaadi as aatishbaazi.
     
  20. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Thank you for your contribution! Really!


    I can now assure you that my hearing is perfectly OK ! We get regular Indian TV news (telecasted directly from India) and the word aatishbaazi to mean a terrorist has been used until quite late. If there is now a move to officially go for aatankvaadi then it is different. But to say I "misheard" aatankvaadi as aatishbaazi is just laughable! The two are not even remotely similar either phonetically or otherwise.
     
  21. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    aatish is fire. aatishbaz is one who makes fireworks and aatishbazi means pyrotechnics or fireworks. So even if one or more news stations were using that word to mean terrorist, they would have been using the wrong word. The legitimate Hindi word for terrorist is aatankvaadi and is now used as such on the news quite frequently.

    If anything maybe they were using aatishbaazi to specifically refer to bombings as opposed to terrorism on a whole...
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2011
  22. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    Exactly! Please refer to the first post of this thread, which happens to be mine anyway! There you see where the term comes from and how it has been traditionally used in Urdu!

    Yes, they were wrong to use it ... and it wasn't just one or two stations who were / are guilty of this. I regularly listen to broadcasts form India and this misuse has been all too frequent!

    If the use of aatankvaadi has of late become frequent then it is good news! It would still be nice to know which is used more frequently. I have heard aatishbaz / aatishbazii all too frequently. I remember this (aatishbaz / aatishbazii ) all too well after the Mumbai attacks!


    I don't think so! I'm sorry but this is like clutching at straws! As I say above, after the Mumbai attacks the terrorists who were armed with guns, i.e. were not bombers as such, were being constantly referred to as aatishbaz (!), much to our annoyance.
     

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