Urdu: iltajaa vs guzaarish vs darxvaast

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Chhaatr, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Friends, is there a difference in the degree of politeness associated with these words when they are used as "request"?

    Many thanks!
  2. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Dear friend, we have got three words, let me write them in the Urdu script first:

    1) اِلْتِجَا iltijaa or hyper-correctly اِلْتِجَاء iltijaa' (often pronounced iltĕjaa)
    2) دَرْخوْاسْتْ darxwaast
    3) گُزَارِشْ guzaarish or hyper-correctly گُذَارِشْ guZaarish

    According to my perception and usage, they are in this order of politeness however I would not say that any of them be impolite.

    The first one, iltijaa' is a request on the verge of begging and praying and beseeching as well as taking the refuge of someone for something. It is a word expressing extreme humility and I would say desperation.

    In contrast to the above, darxwaast is the standard word used for an application/request/petition, having the preference in official interactions.

    The third one, guzaarish is quite common a word which, although can work in the above described situations yet it is just a simple ''statement which is submitted; request'' without any special connotations.

    The above are my impressions which need to be seen in the light of future replies.
  3. Alfaaz Senior Member

    Here are two examples of iltijaa' that seem to fit the analysis presented by marrish SaaHib:
    yeh iltijaa' hai mere Haal peh karam rakhnaa, meri wafaa'oN kaa mere xudaa bharam rakhnaa kisi peh aa'e nah mujh peh jo waqt aayaa hai , tere jahaaN ne to jee khol ke sataayaa hai tu hai raHeem raHm apnaa dam ba-dam rakhnaa, yeh iltijaa' hai mere Haal peh karam rakhnaa Shaa'ir: Riaz-ur-Rahmaan Saghar or Qateel Shifaai ; Film: Nek Parween
    یہ التجاء ہے میرے حال پہ کرم رکھنا ، میری وفاؤں کا میرے خدا بھرم رکھنا کسی پہ آئے نہ مجھ پہ جو وقت آیا ہے ، تیرے جہاں نے تو جی کھول کے ستایا ہے تو ہے رحیم رحم اپنا دم بدم رکھنا ، یہ التجاء ہے میرے حال پہ کرم رکھنا شاعر: ریاض الرحمن ساغر یا قتیل شفائی ؛ فلم: نیک پروین
    bahut dukh diye haiN humeN zindagi ne, humeN aur gham ab nah tum de ke jaa'o nigaahoN ki sehmi hu'ii iltijaa'eN, Sadaa' de rahi haiN keh ab lauT aa'o karo yaad tum ne yeh wa'dah kiyaa thaa, hum ik dusre ka sahaaraa baneN ge akele nah jaanaa humeN choR kar tum, tumhaare binaa hum bhala kyaa jiyeN ge Shaa'ir: Masroor Anwar ; Film: Armaan
    بہت دکھ دیئے ہیں ہمیں زندگی نے ، ہمیں اور غم اب نہ تم دے کے جاؤ نگاہوں کی سہمی ہوئی التجائیں ، صداء دے رہی ہیں کہ اب لوٹ آؤ کرو یاد تم نے یہ وعدہ کیا تھا ، ہم اک دوسرے کا سہارا بنیں گے اکیلے نہ جانا ہمیں چھوڑ کر تم ، تمھارے بنا ہم بھلا کیا جیئیں گے شاعر: مسرور انور ؛ فلم: ارمان
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2013
  4. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    Thank you for these desctiptions. May I ask why the change in characters between the normal and the hyper-correct guzaarish?
  5. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Marrish SaaHib aap ke tafsiilii javaab aur Alfaaz SaaHib aap kii misaaloN ke li'e bahut bahut shukriyah.
  6. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    You are most welcome, as ever.
    You are welcome too. Thank you for your interest in Urdu; the answer to your question has its roots in the Persian language:

    Persian at one time had the ذ zaal sound (the "th"/ð sound in Standard English pronunciation) in a large number of words. Over time, this began to be pronounced as a د daal sound (as in daal/lentils), but one or two words continued to be written with a zaal but by then the zaal had acquired the "normal" ز [z] (ze) sound, e.g paziiruftan and guzashtan. From the latter Urdu guzarnaa and guzaarnaa as well as guzaarish have come about. guzasht and guzaarish both in Urdu and in Persian, tend to be written with both zaal and ze, zaal being thus the older spelling. For this reason, guzaarish with a zaal is "hyper-correct". There is no difference in pronunciation though.
  7. mysig New Member

    English & Urdu
    Iltijaa may sound as if the user is essentially debasing himself but I reckon that's due to the influence and ubiquitousness of Modern Vernacular Urdu. My grandfather, born and bred in Lucknow, used the word liberally. This was particularly true when he was trying to be disapproving or standoffish. In that sense he wielded the word as an effective weapon and essentially turned the modern connotation on its head.
  8. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Very interesting input. Of course one is free to use words to create some effect, be it ironical, exaggerating or sarcastic, as happens in possibly every language. My curiosity is aroused by your having mentioned Modern Vernacular Urdu. Unfortunately this term is new to me so I could not properly understand what was intended to convey. Was the explanation in post 2 a specimen of this or your grandfather's usage? I am asking because I don't know how to place this term, and I am sorry if my request for clarification sounds silly. I thought I described the meaning of iltijaa as it is but as I said before, almost every word can be used accordingly to the taste of the speaker creating what one can call a style. I'm just sharing my train of thought but I would really request your feedback on my questions, mainly because I was trying to figure out which role MVU would play if only I knew with what I should have associated this term with.

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