Urdu-Punjabi-Hindi: Ramzaan Kariim!

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Qureshpor, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    My query concerns the phrase "Ramzaan Kariim". It is used in a similar way to when one says "3iid Mubaarak" (Happy 3iid). Now that it is the first day of Ramzaan Shariif, one is showered with this greeting. To me, this particular greeting is relatively new since I have always known "Ramzaan Mubaarak". Is it a "new" development amongst Muslims of the Subcontinent or have I been living in a cocoon?

    Ramzaan Kariim/Mubaarak everyone!
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2012
  2. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Yes and No. It depends on the education level of the individual --> familiarity with Arabic/Islam. Most of the general population would have used Ramaadan Mubarak in the past (actually not even that, but the incorrect/Urduized pronunciation "Ramzaan"), but now are starting to use all three: Mubarak, Kareem, and (E'id) Sa'eed....perhaps because of greater awareness due to media/technology. It seems our Farsi speaking friends might use Kareem more than Mubarak. Arabic speaking friends (at least now) seem to use all three (sometimes depending on regions), but Kareem/Sa'eed seem to have greater prevalence overall. (Note: the above is on the basis of personal experiences/encounters! Others might have different opinions!)
    Ramadaan Mubaarak! May everyone be happy, safe, and blessed!
     
  3. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    I think it is new in Urdu, perhaps under greater interactions with Arab world/Middle East.

    I notice Pakistani English press uses Ramazan instead of Ramzan. Ramzaan Mubaarak!
     
  4. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Ramzaan Mubaarak!
     
  5. eskandar

    eskandar Moderator

    English (US)
    رمضان مبارک to all!

    In my experience 'Ramazaan [we don't shorten it to Ramzaan as in Urdu] Mobaarak' is by far the most common in Iranian Persian. I hear both 'RamaDaan Mubaarak' and 'RamaDaan Kariim' from Arab friends, but '3eid sa3iid' is reserved for 3eid al-fiTr and not for the beginning of the month of Ramadan.

    In Arabic, the proper response to رمضان کریم is الله اکرم . Has this response also been adopted by Desi Muslims who say 'Ramzaan Kariim' or do they use a different response?
     
  6. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    A very common Pakistani Urdu response to all forms of "Mubaarak"s is "xair mubaarak" خیر مبارک, which roughly means "mubaarak to you too".
     
  7. eskandar

    eskandar Moderator

    English (US)
    Yes, I'm aware of that. But would an Urdu-speaker say خیر مبارک in response to an expression that doesn't contain the word مبارک as in رمضان کریم ? In other words, if someone said 'Ramzaan kariim' to you, would you respond with 'xayr mubaarak' or with something else?
     
  8. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Again, this would depend on the individual (and his/her familiarity with Arabic). It doesn't seem likely that the average common man or woman would know to respond with الله اکرم ...(certainly don't mean to underestimate people, just saying based on experience); usually its just Ramaadaan Mubaarak --> * آپکو بھی مبارک ہو / خیر مبارک ; For Ramaadan Kareem, I've heard things like: بالکل / جی، اور الله سب سے کریم ہے ....which is basically the translation of the Arabic phrase!

    *About khair mubaarak: there was a debate on this phrase in the past (in this or the Arabic forum), with some saying that this is probably Punjabi influence, while others were saying that how could there be Punjabi influence all the way in the Arabic-speaking world.

    Edit: It was this thread (in which eskandar SaaHib and Qureshpor SaaHib also participated) ; thread in Arabic forum.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2012
  9. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    You are probably right. I personally would n't know what the correct response to "Ramzaan Kariim" might be. I would probably just repeat the phrase.

    Do you use xair-mubaarak in your household at all? If yes, do you have any ideas where it might have originated from?
     
  10. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    Not used traditionally among family but now used sometimes with new generation. From my experience, xair mubaarak is indeed Punjabi influence. I like to use it.
     
  11. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Yes and No!*
    * I guess whenever people are living in multi-dimensional societies and attending multi-cultural/lingual religious centers (whether a mosque, church, synagogue, etc.), they begin to use pretty much everything that comes their way: Ramadaan Kareem, Ramadaan Mubaarak, Hope you have a Happy Ramadaan, Eid Mubaarak, Eid Sa'eed, Have a great E'id, Allahu akram, Khair Mubaarak, Aapko bhi mubaarak, Same to you, Assalaamu a'laikum wa raHmatullahi wa barakatahu, marhaba, aadaab, ahlan wasahlan, Hello, 你好 (ni-hauw), Bonjour, Salaam, What's up dude/bro/girl/sister/mate/bhai SaaHib/SaaHibah/adaa sa'eeN/addii sa'yeN...? , How are you? , How's it going? , kya Haal hai? , koi nai taazi? , Peace , Bye , Pa-khair aagle , Allah Sa'eeN RaHmat kare, Rab Rakhhaa, namaaz-o-roza, soum-o-salaah, i'baadat, fasting, worship and prayer..............etc. etc. وغیرہ وغیرہ whatever floats your boat! They're all just expressions of happiness, kindness, joy and friendship!
     
  12. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you, but you have n't answered my question even though you have used a whole bottle of ink in writing your response!

    Coming from a pure Urdu background, prior to mixing into the "multi-dimensional" societies, do you and/or your parents/grandparents use xair-mubaarak or not?
     
  13. Alfaaz Senior Member

    English
    Without going into much detail, Yes.....not only grand but some of the great-grand gen. from both sides! However, they also lived in such a mixed environment (which is why I used the bottle of ink), so perhaps then might not really classify as living in a "pure Urdu background". It might be that generations before theirs who might have lived in a "purely Urdu bubble" were strictly against using "khair-mubaarak"........or maybe not! God knows best and those generations would know, but I think communicating with them now would be a bit difficult...! الله سب کو جنت نصیب کرے! آمین

    (If you don't mind my asking)....what is your experience QP SaaHib.....from a Punjabi viewpoint? Did previous generations use "khair mubaarak" or something else?

    Another idea: Ramadaan is supposed to be a month / and E'id a day of خیر , so Ramadaan / E'id Mubaarak --> Khair Mubaarak......?
     
  14. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I can answer your question without using a drop of ink. I grew up in purely Punjabi background and "xair mubaarak" is all that I have known.

    I don't understand where the problem is whether one refers to the goodness of a day or a month.
     
  15. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    For me, it is not really important one way or another. However, I would be interested in finding out any reasons behind your certainty.
     
  16. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    I have parts of my family who have lived in Punjab a long long time (Lahore and Islamabad areas mostly) who use this a lot more than what I heard in Karachi. As I said earlier, this is based on "my experience".
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2012
  17. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I've heard xair mubaarak said in response to the 3iid mubaarak greeting, but not to the ramazaan mubaarak one. I've understood its intention to congratulate others on 3iid the following year, meaning that they we are safe and sound to celebrate another 3iid.

    ramazaan kariim is nothing new at all and I recall it being said, but not popularily, a long time ago in the speech of older generations.
     
  18. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    For us too it has always been رمضان مبارک ramazaan mubaarak or رمضان کریم ramazaan kariim and xair mubaarak came as surprise when I first heard it. That was in Pakistan. Since then I’ve heard it also from some expats living abroad and as far as I can recall they happen to be originally from Pakistan though not all Pakistanis say it.

    ... and a Blessed Ramazaan to all!
     

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