Urdu: tasavvur

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Chhaatr, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Chhaatr Senior Member

    I have tried to look up this word in Platts but there is no entry there. From the web it seems this means "imagination" and this seems to correspond with the usage I've come across on Youtube.

    My questions are:

    1) If I were to say:

    "Zaraa tasavvur kareN aisaa hotaa to kyaa hotaa?"

    Would this be correct usage of this word?

    2) Also, does this word have any other meaning? If so, could someone illustrate it with a sample sentence, please?

    Many thanks!
  2. Alfaaz Senior Member

    Here is the Platts entry.*

    1) Yes!

    2) For an example, you can read (and listen to) this.

    *Note: Generally, Urdu words (especially of Arabic and Persian origin) are transliterated (and pronounced...this would vary) with a w rather than a v. However, some forum members choose to use a v for transliteration of words like waqt or tasawwur, so this might have caused the confusion of not being able to find it in Platts.
  3. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Yes, your are right, this noun means ''imagination''. Your sentence is also perfectly alright. This word has no other meaning but can be translated in different ways.

    Here is the entry from Platts:

    A تصور taṣawwur [inf. n. v of صور 'to form or fashion,' &c.], s.m. Imaging or picturing (a thing) to the mind; imagination, fancy; reflection, contemplation, meditation; forming an idea; idea, conception, perception, apprehension:—taṣawwur karnā, v.t. To picture to oneself; to imagine, fancy; to regard, consider, suppose; to conceive, apprehend, &c.

    Lastly, here is your sentence in the Urdu script:

    ذرا تصوُر کریں ایسا ہوتا تو کیا ہوتا؟
  4. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Merii Urdu siikhne kii koshish meN aap donoN kii musalsal madad ke liye maiN aap donoN kaa shukrguzaar huuN, tahe dil se!

    marrish saaHib, kareN ke nuun meN dot kyoN nahi hai?
  5. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Think of the word being connected to "tasviir" (image/picture), hence "imagination", fantasy, idea, concept, conception.

    kashish-i-saql kaa tasavvur (The concept of gravity)

    Here is someone from your city talking about stars and the like.

    yih rupahlii chhaaoN yih aakaash par taaroN kaa jaal
    jaise suufii kaa tasavvur jaise 3aashiq kaa xayaal
    aah lekin kaun jaane kaun samjhe jii kaa Haal
    ai Gham-i-dil kyaa karuuN, ai vaHshat-i-dil kyaa karuuN

    Majaaz Lakhnavi
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  6. Chhaatr Senior Member

    I just checked out the link to which Alfaaz saaHib pointed me. I give below an extract from what I read there (I'll do the listening part after this post).

    "unka hi tasawwur hai, maHfil ho kih tanhaa'ii"

    What does tasawwur mean here, imagination or yaad?
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  7. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    خوشی کی بات ہے کہ ہم آپ کے کام آ سکے پر الفاظ صاحب مجھ سے زیادہ ہی حاضر جواب نکلے ہیں!۔

    xushii kii baat hai kih ham aap ke kaam aa sake par Alfaaz SaaHib mujh se ziyaadah hii Haazir-jawaab nikle haiN!

    چھاتر صاحب، جیسے کہ آپ کو معلوم ہی ہے، کریں میں نون کی پوری آواز نہیں آتی بلکہ صرف ے ۔۔۔ناک سے۔۔۔ بولا جاتا ہے۔ اس قسم کے نون کو نونِ غنہ کہتے ہیں۔

    Chhaatr SaaHib, jaise kih aap ko ma3luum hii hai, ''kareN'' meN nuun kii puurii aawaaz nahiiN aatii balkih sirf ''e'' ''naak se'' bolaa jaataa hai. is qism ke nuun ko nuun-e-Ghunnah kahte haiN.

    اور آپ کے نہی میں نونِ غنہ کیوں نہیں؟

    aur aap ke ''nahi'' meN nuun-e-Ghunnah kyoN nahiiN?
  8. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    aur janaab aap ke "nahiiN" meN "nuun (-i-) Ghunnah" kahaaN hai?
  9. Alfaaz Senior Member

    nuqte ke baghair nuun nuun-e-ghunnah kehlaataa hai, representing nasalization as in the following : کریں ، میں ، کیوں kareN, meN, kyuN, etc.
    Chaatr SaaHib, as stated above, these would more likely be transliterated as tasweer/taswiir, tasawwur, and waHshat in most Urdu publications and also Platts.
  10. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Thank you very much QP saaHib. Yes Majaaz was from Rudali near Barabanki which is about 27 or so kilometres from Lucknow. I was listening to his "yeh meraa chaman hai, meraa chaman, maiN apne chaman ka bulbul huuN" which is the Taraanaa of AMU. Pretty high-falutin stuff for a beginner like me but my thanks to the blogger who had put in English translation to the difficult words
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    It means "maHbuubah terii tasviir kis tarH maiN "bhulaa'uuN""", yih to naa-mumkin hai! tum merii nas nas meN samaa'ii hu'ii ho.
  12. Chhaatr Senior Member

    saaHibaan mehrbaanii kar ke is sawaal pe bhii tawajjo deN.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  13. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    tavajjuh farmaa'iye Huzuur! is ke ma3nii haiN kih mere zihn meN tum hii tumm chhaa'ii hu'ii ho, chaahe maiN auroN kii suHbat meN hotaa huuN yaa bi_lkul akelaa!
  14. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Alfaaz SaaHib, could you please check whether this verse is written correctly? I'm asking about محفل ہو کے تنہائی maHfil ho ke tanhaa'ii. Perhaps محفل ہو کہ تنہائی maHfil ho kih tanhaa'ii?
  15. Alfaaz Senior Member

    Another interpretation: People could think that the person is perhaps experiencing visual and/or auditory hallucinations, because s/he thinks of and sees his/her lover all the time which makes others see insanity, magar woh apne aap ko shaidaa'ii, saudaa'ii aur dewaanah tasawwur naheeN karte!
    As you would know, the edit function wouldn't work now.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  16. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I agree but it can work here for Chhaatr SaaHib! So, Chhaatr SaaHib, please edit your posts and change ke to kih, if you can.
  17. Chhaatr Senior Member

    You're right Alfaaz saaHib, I should have tried "tasawwur".
  18. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Done, huzuur!
  19. Alfaaz Senior Member

    I hope you haven't misunderstood, I was just trying to point out the difference in Platts transliteration and that of QP SaaHib's.
  20. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    A half shukriyah, janaab-e-3aalii! The other half you can say to yourself after going to post #6 :)
  21. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Bilkul bhii nahiiN Alfaaz saaHib. Meraa handle "Chhaatr" hai, "taalib-e-ilm", if I'm not wrong. Student only learns or tries to. :)
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  22. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Today I came across the following usage of tasavvur:

    mulk meN siyaasii jamaatoN ke andar jo jamhuuriat hai yeh ek nayaa tasavvur hai

    What does tasavvur mean here?
  23. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    mulk meN siyaasii jamaa3atoN ke andar jo jumhuuriyat hai yih ek nayaa tasavvur (concept) hai.

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