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Urdu: To spill/To pour

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by Qureshpor, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    One can pour some milk into a glass. If one is not careful, it may spill onto the table or onto the floor.

    In Urdu, the verb for "To pour" is "unDelnaa". Is there a comparable verb "unDalnaa" for "To spill (accidentally)?
     
  2. BP. Senior Member

    Karachi
    Urdu
    spill-ch.halaknaa-چھلکنا.
     
  3. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    How about ڈلنا, which is the intransitive verb?
     
  4. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Very good suggestion, PG SaaHib. Until today, I was under the (wrong) impression that this was a punjabi verb only, i.e. DulNRaa. However, see what Sauda has to day...

    aaNkhoN se paRaa ashk mire Dhultaa hai
    sar kab se tire paa'oN tale rultaa hai
    ai Ghunchah-dahan pyaare Tuk to haNs bol
    kyaa dil hai miraa tuu kih nahiiN khultaa hai

    Both verbs appear to very "Punjabiesque"! I would have expected "uNDalnaa" instead of "Dulnaa".
     
  5. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Are Urdu and Hindi speakers aware of such a verb as "unDalnaa" or even "Dulnaa"?
     
  6. UrduMedium Senior Member

    United States
    Urdu (Karachi)
    ^ Both sound unfamiliar to my ears.
     
  7. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    "Dulnaa" is a common word used in Hindi; besides, as mentioned, "chhalaknaa" also is there for spilling. As far as Hindi is concerned, meanwhile, "uNRelnaa" does not exactly mean "to pour" for me: of course, a pouring action is there, but it's a pouring with some kind of "chhiRaknaa" involved! (Don't know how to explain it better!) For example, in Hindi, one cannot "uNRel doodh gilaas mein" but a "haathii" (elephant) certainly "paani uNReltaa hai apnii sooNRh se".
     
  8. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    Pouring with sprinkling involved???? Like naapke unDelnaa... (I hate the uNRelnaa version. Too hard to pronounce)
     
  9. tonyspeed Senior Member

    JA- English & Creole
    Just wanted to put the definition here from Platts. unDelnaa/uNRelnaa is not just any kind of pouring according to Platts. It is
    H الينڐنا उलेंडना uleṇḍnā [S. ओलण्ड्], v.t. To invert a vessel in order to empty it of its contents; to empty; to pour out (water, &c.=unḍelnā, q.v.).

    This is in line with how I've seen it used before. But in common Hindi Daalnaa seems to be prefered for just putting anything into some other thing.

    i.e. paanii bartan meN Dal do.
     
  10. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    ^ "uNRelnaa" is also used a lot in "common" Hindi: it's just the action happening should be that of "uNRelnaa". Platts is right here: in the contexts he's talking about, "uNRelnaa" is a far better word than "Daalnaa" (and I doubt if anyone would use the latter word).
     
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    "Daalnaa" is an all purpose verb for putting things in. It does not encompass the manner, which could be "Tapkaanaa", "pheNknaa", "giraanaa" and the like. "unDelnaa" is one such way for putting something (liquid) in a vessel.

    My logic is that if we can have "Dalnaa" as the intransitive for "Daalnaa", I am surprised that there does not seem to be "unDalnaa", as in...

    chaa'e se bharii piyaalii mez par paRii thii. achaanak us par meraa haath lagaa aur saarii chaa'e "unDal" ga'ii.
     
  12. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    ^ Simply because for me the action itself is not that of "uNRelnaa"! I would say "chaae chhaTak/uNchhal/chhalak gayii".

    Meanwhile, "chaa'e se bharii piyaalii mez par paRii thii" looks very odd: one would expect "chaa'e se bharii piyaalii mez par rakhii thii"! Of course, just a pyaalii (which is how I pronounce it, rather than piyaalii) could be "paRii", but filled with tea, it can only be "rakhii" for me.
     
  13. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    In Urdu, the word is "piyaalah", "piyaalii". It might be "pyaalii" in Hindi, in the same manner that Urdu "ziyaadah" has become Hindi "zyaadaa".

    Re: paRii vs rakhii, I feel "paRii" is perfectly correct in the sense I have written my sentence but I have no problem with "rakhii".
     
  14. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    unDalnaa exists! We use it just as in your sentence: chaa'e "unDal" ga'ii = The tea spilled over.

    The word chhalaknaa (mentioned above) implies overflow and that too can result in liquids spilling but if we knocked over a half-empty tea cup then we wouldn't obviously say chaa'e chhalak ga'ii! Here we'd say chaa'e unDal ga'ii. We could also use the more general expression chaa'e gir ga'ii but unDalnaa would be more specific than girnaa although the latter is also used quite commonly.
     
  15. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you Faylasoof SaaHib for this confirmation. I am a little surprised however that both BP and UM SaaHibaan have not come across "unDalnaa". I shall now start using it in Urdu without any hesitation!
     
  16. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    It somewhat surprises me too QP SaaHib that they haven't come across / don't use "unDalnaa". We use it regularly and I'd request you to do the same!
     
  17. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I do use it but I have always believed that I've been influenced by Punjabi! Good to know it is not the case.
     
  18. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    How can you be so certain!?:) It would be a bonus to find some literary examples.
     
  19. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    ^I will go on search for the literary examples, but the certainty results from the contribution by Faylasoof SaaHib whom I don't suspect of being influenced by Punjabi (Faylasoof SaaHib, do correct me if I am wrong).
     
  20. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    marrish SaaHib, I've not in any known way been influenced by Punjabi which, generally speaking, doesn't discount a "hidden Punjabi hand" of long ago! However, grammatically it all makes perefect sense - this being a regular form, e.g.
    karnaa / karaanaa / karwaanaa
    khaanaa / khilaanaa / khilwaanaa
    unDalnaa / udDelnaa / unDelwaanaa (have also heard unDalwaanaa!)

    Besides in our speech it is common, so we also say:

    thharmaas giraa, paanii unD(a)laa !

    The thermos fell, the water spiiled!
     
  21. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Sorry. Then, how would you compose an instruction to make tea. ''Please pour a half liter water into the can?''
     
  22. Faylasoof Senior Member

    Plato's Republic
    English (UK) & Urdu (Luckhnow), Hindi
    No problem! We just need to keep on track!

    For this: ''Please pour half a liter of water into the can?''

    There are two ways: aadhaa liiTar paanii kanisTar meN Daalie (DaaleN) / unDelie (unDeleN) <- actually, the first is far more common and would also back-translate to "Please put half a liter of water into the can" but the two sentences mean the same.
     
  23. panjabigator

    panjabigator Senior Member

    غریب الوطن
    Am. English
    Any chance "rekhtā" could be used for spilling? I have seen "khūnrezi" to describe some more visceral contexts.

    "rekhtā" ke tumhī ustād nahīN ho, Ghalib...

    And not that my ignorance should be the yardstick of anything, but I had never heard of "unDalnaa" till this thread. Thank you for equipping me with this "common" verb!

    And QP Sahib, could it be that you (and myself too) are tainted by Punjabi in this context? "chāh nāl bharī pyālī mez te paii ai" looks good to me.
     
  24. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    May I start my response by saying..

    ba3d muddat ke yih ghaRii aa'ii

    You might think I had ordered a watch and it got lost in the postal system. Today, finally a postman has turned up at my door with the watch! But no...

    aap aa'e to zindagii aa'ii!

    "rextan" means both to spill and pour but I am not aware of its use in Urdu for spillage from an accidental knocking of a cup or deliberate pouring from a bottle. My query was esentially to find if there was an intransitive version of "unDelnaa" in Urdu or Hindi. Now we know there is and it makes perfect sense. In Punjabi we have Do_hlNRaa (to spill on purpose/pour) vs "DulNRaa" (to spill accidentally). By the way, the word is "rextah" and not "rextaa". Probably a typo on your part or you are tainted with Devanaagri spelling!:)

    PG Jii, I am more than tainted by Punjabi. I am drowned in it! You could say, I am tainted with Urdu.

    I believe there is a subtle difference between..

    chaa'e se bharii piyaalii mez par paRii thii. achaanak us par meraa haath lagaa aur saarii chaa'e "unDal" ga'ii.

    ..and..

    chaa'e se bharii piyaalii mez par rakhii thii. achaanak us par meraa haath lagaa aur saarii chaa'e "unDal" ga'ii.

    In the first example, the implication is that the "piyaalii" was there, how it got there is not relevant whereas in the second example, it is obvious that "chaa'e se bharii piyaalii mez par (kisii ne) rakhii thii. paRnaa is an intransitive verb and rakhnaa is both an intransitive and transitive verb*. So, my choice was deliberate, untainted by my Punjabi. But, as you will no doubt know, we have both these verbs. So, I could have used "rakhnaa" irrespective of my Punjabi influence.

    *
    zindagii apnii jab is shakl se guzrii Ghalib
    ham bhii kyaa yaad kareN ge kih xudaa rakhte the

    Ghalib


    is nagrii ke kuchh logoN ne
    dukh kaa naam davaa rakhaa hai

    Nasir Kazimi
     
  25. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    ^ I wonder, though, how is it possible for a teacup to lie on a table without someone having kept it there in the first place! :D
     
  26. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    It could have fallen down onto the table from a higher place, couldn't it?
     
  27. greatbear Senior Member

    India
    India - Hindi & English
    And the chai remained in the cup? Haha, even Rajnikanth won't be able to manage that! You should go back to post 12, marrish!
     
  28. marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    You right on this one, I've taken a look on your previous post however I am not so sure about discarding the ''paRii'' option, but I have been stopped by the moderator to discuss it so I'll leave it here at this point unless we have a thread to discuss it (interesting, isn't it?)
     

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