Using Nominalizers w/ Possessive Particles

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by kyrintethron, May 31, 2013.

  1. kyrintethron Senior Member

    English - America
    Okay, this is going to be another awkward, unnatural sounding sentence, but what I'm most interested in is how verb nominalizers should be paired with the possessive particle の. For instance:

    僕は何かをしている事の終わりです。(It is the end of something I am doing.)

    Should the 事 be another の? Is that appropriate to have a "verbののnoun" form? Or is it something completely different?

    Thanks,
    -K
     
  2. John_Doe Senior Member

    Kazakhstan
    Russian
    Btw, since it's a nominalized sentence, shouldn't 'ga' be instead of 'wa'? Then, I dare say nanka and koto is tautology, so I'd rewrite it like that 僕がしている事の終わりです。 It will be interesting to hear native speakers' opinion on that topic.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2013
  3. kyrintethron Senior Member

    English - America
    Good point. Thanks.
     
  4. kyrintethron Senior Member

    English - America
    While we're on the subject, what would be the preferred nominalizer when it is put before other particles like に and を? My instinct is suggesting that こと would sound more natural than の in such instances, but I'd like to be sure.

    Thanks,
    -K
     
  5. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Wait wait..
    I can't say how this の works, but ~の終わり is often. 夏の終わり/月の終わり。 I slightly sense yours の like a possessive particle, like something's end (I know this incorrect). But I slightly sense the summer is welcoming its final phase..different from 'at the end of the summer'. This is similar to: The summer ends = The end of the summer.

    Aside from the function of の, the sentence, including English one, will differ depending on if you've been doing several jobs but are pointing the last one, or something you've been doing will finish. The second one is what you're mentioning? Let's do step by step.
     
  6. kyrintethron Senior Member

    English - America
    Well I understand that the の終わり portion is fine. I'm more interested in the しているの + の/こと portion. Is it possible to use the の possessive particle with the の nominalizing particle? or do you have to nominalize with こと instead?

    Thanks,
    -K
     
  7. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Okay..if this の is the nominative particle? So far, I'm not sure. Let's put off our conclusion now, and you'll be able to understand gradually, finding an answer. On this post, I'll talk about 'the end of something I'm doing'.

    Not difficult so much. There's something. What is it? Something you're doing.
    You did a few days ago―in something + clause, use the same approach you did in the dog's case.

    Further, that something has something..the end. Therefore, 'the end of something I'm doing' can be what John_Doe did, 僕のしている事の終わり.
    But it's too early for you to conclude 'Oh, then this の must be a possessive particle!'.

    Roughly understandable?
    Well, K, a new problem arises: The way the Japanese language 'cooks' that event is different from English one. I'll continue this topic later. But post again if you want to ask more.
     
  8. kyrintethron Senior Member

    English - America
    My question is about having two の particles back to back - both the nominative の and the possessive の.

    e.g. 僕がしているの + の終わり

    My question is: can both of those things go together, i.e. 僕がしているのの終わり? or in such an instance, does the nominative の need to be changed into こと, thus: 僕がしている事の終わり?
     
  9. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    First, this Japanese is possible, not incorrect. Often in a casual talk. There two の are the nominative の+the possessive の?Sorry I'm not sure. Rather I see this a simplified version of 僕がしている事の終わり. The first の works instead of 事 for omission/simplification.
    If anybody knows the nominative の+the possessive の, please tell us about it please!

    I humbly suggest you that 'something' can be 事. It isn't 何か always. Isn't this similar to when you deal with 'something' and 'thing' in English? Therefore, something + I'm doing, 僕がしている+事.
     
  10. kyrintethron Senior Member

    English - America
    Thanks for the info. As a native, what would you prefer to say? 「しているのの終わり」or 「していることの終わり」?

    That's good to know. 何か was sounding a little funny to me. With that being the case, maybe 「バスケットボールをしているのの終わり」vs. 「バスケットボールをしていることの終わり」would be a better comparison.
     
  11. 涼宮

    涼宮 Senior Member

    Sbaeneg/Castellano (Venezuela)
    僕のしている事の終わり reminds me of when が used to have the function of の in some cases in an older Japanese, like saying 君がために and not 君のために. I see の as a simple connector like ~な connects na-adjectives, so no actual meaning on its own. I didn't see this in any of the posts, but is there any difference between 僕している事の終わり and 僕している事の終わり? Thanks :)
     
  12. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    Thank you for the additional mention. No differences between 僕のしている事の終わり and 僕がしている事の終わり. Maybe they're interchangeable. Why? I'm not sure very much..I see the first one has 'double' possessive. We can make another thread for this topic lol
     
  13. frequency

    frequency Senior Member

    Tokyo, Japan
    Japanese
    U~m, the のの version is informally accepted. I don't think it critically wrong especially in speaking. Just if comparing them, the better is
    ~ことの終わり. For のの, I'll add one more example later.

    This relates to how you say it in Japanese.
    If you want to say your basketball play is over/is finished, we say, バスケは終わり。(SVC, S-adj), バスケを終える。(SVO).
    バスケが終わる。(SV)?This tells you just basketball (will) end. We say it in a different way and when you select either, のの or の disappears.
    I know your question is difficult and has some topics. I'm taking time.


    My cat takes medicine for hairball that smells like maple syrup, and the vet said it sweet. I told my friend:
    こういうのの味は甘くできているそうだ。
    I heard that this kind of stuff is made sweet.
    I'm using the first の instead of もの. こういうものの味は甘くできているそうだ。
    P.S. MS Word Japanese Check alerts のの with a red line.
     
  14. kyrintethron Senior Member

    English - America
    I should've been more clear with what I was saying with the basketball examples. I was more focusing on just a part of a sentence, rather than a whole one, the meaning being: "the end of the basketball game". I guess it gets a little difficult to convey when there are so many better ways for it to be worded.

    But with your 「ことの」suggestion, I think that I'm pretty straightened out on this question.

    Thanks for all your help! ^_^
     

Share This Page