Variations on Suru Conjugations

Discussion in '日本語 (Japanese)' started by Reona, Dec 16, 2007.

  1. Reona New Member

    Spain/spanish
    Hi, I was wondering what EXACTLY is the difference between the conjugation of, lets say

    有する (example of suru -special class- verb)

    and

    電話する (example of suru verb)


    If someone could explain it and conjugate the verbs above it would be great.

    Thanks!
     
  2. tkekte Senior Member

    Russian/Israel
    I didn't know there was a difference. :O
     
  3. Reona New Member

    Spain/spanish
    There is no difference?

    Then, why bothering naming a 'special class'? *[note]

    I thought that maybe there is some particular inflexion for 'special class' suru verbs that was irregular compared with the one for 'normal' suru verbs... or something like that. I've googled it like there's no tomorrow but I couldn't find anything.


    *[note]
    Source=Edict. I'm aware that there's a thread related to this, but I couldn't find the answer there. Perhaps it's not there or it's written fully in Japanese. Is so, please post an English traslation here, please.
     
  4. Beejay Junior Member

    Sydney, Australia
    Australia, English
    I don't know what a suru "special class" verb is supposed to be. To my knowledge, nouns can become verbs by adding する to them, as in 勉強する (study -> to study), but even when used like this, する still conjugates the same way.

    Maybe the "special class" relates to how the verb can be used, rather than its conjugation.
     
  5. Reona New Member

    Spain/spanish
    I have no idea, Beejay, but this issue kind of bothers me. That could be the case, but I would like to find one example at least.

    By the way, where can I find full tables with the conjugation of irregular verbs in Japanese? (and before someone tells me so, not just suru and kuru, I mean those "not so regular" verbs,those with 1 or 2 irregularities)
     
  6. Flaminius

    Flaminius coclea mod

    capita Iaponiae
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Hello,

    Yes, suru is not only different from main stream conjugations (consonant-stem and vowel-stem; or more traditionally godan and ichidan) but also manifests a lot of irregularities in compound verbs.

    Reona has asked about irregularities in yūsuru. This verb has too many stories to tell so let me first use aisuru to show similar irregularities. This verb differs from suru in three conjugational paradigms (negative -nai, volitional , imperative):
    suru; shinai, shiyō, shiro (seyo)
    ai-suru; ai-sanai, ai-sō, ai-se

    Now back to yūsuru. The conjugation of this verb fluctuates between the original suru and the irregularities of the aisuru paradigm. I am not very fond of yūsanai but it is more common than yūshinai (which is the only correct form in legal documents). Imperative yūseyo (*yūshiro sounds terribly wrong anyway) may be a little archaic but I find it much better-sounding that the terse yūse. Volitional yūshiyō and yūsō are most difficult to make any judgement since neither seems to be a frequent occurrence.

    One can argue that yūsuru has been able to resist the aisuru type of change due to its conservativeness. I don't find too many instances of yūsuru and its conjugations outside legal documents really.

    Previous discussions may be useful to look at:
    I love only myself
    Conjunction "-noni"
     
  7. Reona New Member

    Spain/spanish
    Thanks a lot, Flaminius, that was really helpful !!

    Where do you find this kind of information? It's not available in standard grammar books, at least I couldn't find it!
     
  8. Flaminius

    Flaminius coclea mod

    capita Iaponiae
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית

    Attached Files:

  9. Reona New Member

    Spain/spanish
    Wow!, Thanks so much Flaminius!
     

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