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Verbal noun

Discussion in 'Čeština (Czech)' started by Roy776, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. Roy776

    Roy776 Senior Member

    Germany
    German & AmE
    Zdravím všechny,

    Má jazyk český něco jako slovesné podstatné jméno? V jazyku polském mohl bych říct například "Masz coś do powiedzenia?" (Got something to say?). Je to možné v jazyku českém? Jestli ano, jak se tvoři ty formy? V polském jsou to podstatná jména rodu středního, které tvořime s koncem "-enie".

    Skloňování

    Infinitiv: powiedzieć
    Nominativ: powiedzenie
    Genitiv: powiedzenia
    Dativ: powiedzeniu
    Akuzativ: powiedzenie
    Vokativ: ---
    Lokál: powiedzeniu
    Instrumentál: powiedzeniem

    Děkuji předem.
     
  2. K.u.r.t Senior Member

    London, UK
    Czech
    čestina a polština jsou si hodně podobné. V češtině používáme koncovky -ení, -ání. Slova jsou také středního rodu jako u vás. Příklad: mluvení, dělání, ...
     
  3. franglaiise Senior Member

    slovaque
    I guess this type of nouns exists in most Slavic languages, just be careful because, as far as I know, in Czech these nouns are not used in cases like the one that you mentioned.

    You wouldn't translate Masz coś do powiedzenia? as Máš něco na "řečení"? You would rather say Chceš něco říct? or maybe Máš něco, co bys chtěl říct? (wait for native speakers to translate the sentence as well)
     
  4. marsi.ku Junior Member

    Czech
    Ano, tato slovesná podstatná jména nelze použít v každém případě - "řečení" skutečně neexistuje. A jak říká franglaiise, řekli bychom spíše "Chceš něco říct?"
    Tato jména používáme spíš následovně: Chceš něco ke/na čtení, na psaní?:tick: Zvláštně už by ale znělo např. Chceš něco na jedení?:cross:
     
  5. Enquiring Mind Senior Member

    UK/Česká republika
    English - the Queen's
    Am I right in thinking that phrases like "máš něco na praní?"* and "máš něco na žehlení?"** are okay in spoken Czech? This construction is the equivalent of the Polish one that Roy776 was asking about. I checked these phrases on Google, and I'm surprised to find only 2 hits, yet I hear this sort of phrase quite a lot.

    *Have you got any washing? Have you got anything that needs washing/to be washed?
    **Have you got any ironing? Have you got anything that needs ironing/to be ironed?
     
  6. Roy776

    Roy776 Senior Member

    Germany
    German & AmE
    I thought as much. But Chcesz coś powiedzieć? is also possible in Polish, but I dare say that Masz coś do powiedzenia? sounds more enquiring, somehow aggressive. But I'm not a native speaker, so I might be wrong.

    Both examples are possible in Polish.
    Chcesz coś do czytania/pisania? (Do you want something to read/write?)
    Chcesz coś do jedzenia? (Do you want something to eat?)

    Předpokládám, že v čestině i tam říkáte "Chceš něco jíst?", ne?
     
  7. franglaiise Senior Member

    slovaque
    I'm not sure if the phrase is used a lot but I've already heard Chceš něco k snětku? which would translate as Do you want something to eat?, i.e. Chcesz coś do jedzenia? But I'm afraid that the word snětku only exists in this phrase (I've never seen its nominative form). And as you can see, it's not a verbal noun or at least not the kind we're talking about.
     
  8. franglaiise Senior Member

    slovaque
    I see what you mean. Masz coś do powiedzenia? may sound as a challenge, something like Have you got something to say in your defense?
    But I think it depends on the situation and the way you say it really.

    That might be Máš, co bys (k tomu) řekl? in Czech but I'm not sure.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2012
  9. marsi.ku Junior Member

    Czech
    Yes, Enquiring Mind, it's possible to say it in spoken Czech. However, I'd sad more "máš něco na vyprání?" and "máš něco na vyžehlení?". These two sentences expresse more the sense of "to be washed/ironed".

    Attention, "snětku" is wrong and it's written "snědku": Chceš něco k snědku?:tick: You are right that we don't use this word in another forms but the spelling is derived from past form of the verb "sníst" => snědl => snědku.
     
  10. franglaiise Senior Member

    slovaque
    Yeah, that makes sense. :) Sorry for the mistake, I've only ever heard it, I've never seen the written form.
     
  11. marsi.ku Junior Member

    Czech
    There's no problem. The pronounciation is with "t" so I understand it. ;)
     
  12. Roy776

    Roy776 Senior Member

    Germany
    German & AmE
    I somehow feel that these are different usages of the verbal noun, but I can't really explain why, so I won't elaborate on it. But it seems to me that the verbal nouns are always used when a verb becomes the object of a preposition. do czegoś probably corresponding to Czech na co, as it seems, although the Czech one might not be standard.

    I just found:
    Dzięki za powiedzenie mi to! (Thanks for telling me this!)
    Which would translate literally into Czech as
    Díky pro řečení mi to!
    which is most probably wrong, bearing in mind what all of you said. So how would you rephrase this then?
    I would probably come up with:
    Díky, že jsi řekl mi to.
     
  13. marsi.ku Junior Member

    Czech
    It's even better to say "Díky, že jsi mi to řekl." or in spoken Czech: Díky, žes mi to řekl.
     
  14. Roy776

    Roy776 Senior Member

    Germany
    German & AmE
    I had considered both of your versions, but I wasn't sure if they were correct. Thanks for that :)
     

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